NYer:As for your suggestion that the church has "collapsed" spiritually, I would beg to disagree.
An example of the apostacy in America from Vatican II onwards. From the Catholic Directory.
Year Infant Adult Deaths Total Annual Total
Baptisms Baptisms Catholics Apostates Apostates
87 941898 80703 430532 52893217 -353760 -8276263
86 953323 87996 446822 52654908 -207632 -7922503
85 947668 91750 438031 52268043 -726278 -7714871
84 975017 95346 421032 52392934 -345141 -6988593
83 965014 94251 414460 52088744 236360 -6643452
82 952586 92861 425241 51207579 137531 -6879812
81 943632 88942 417047 50449842 22137 -7017343
80 910506 81968 408651 49812178 -373680 -7039480
79 896151 77205 407102 49602035 -800395 -6665800
78 890677 78598 404163 49836176 -54688 -5865405
77 884925 79627 407783 49325752 -112889 -5810717
76 894992 80053 406497 48881872 -388511 -5697828
75 876306 75123 407258 48701835 -307774 -5309317
74 916564 74741 415412 48465438 -570882 -5001543
73 975564 73925 426340 48460427 -553712 -4430661
72 1054933 79012 407956 48390990 -549728 -3876949
71 1088463 84534 417779 48214729 -412578 -3327221
70 1086858 92670 400880 47872089 -779797 -2914643
69 1095172 102865 412264 47873238 -380868 -2134846
68 1139248 110717 382492 47468333 -264050 -1753978
67 1190842 117478 393534 46864910 -296051 -1489928
66 1274938 123149 389938 46246175 -402575 -1193877
65 1310413 126209 387739 45640601 -282653 -791302
64 1322315 123956 379390 44874371 -40448 -508649
63 1322283 125670 360637 43847938 -116043 -468201
62 1352371 128430 356878 42876665 -352158 -352158
61 1349240 136953 348529 42104900
And before the Council???
Year Infant Adult Deaths Total Annual Total
Baptisms Baptisms Catholics Apostates Apostates
61 1349240 136953 348529 42104900 95934 3482011
60 1344576 146212 334394 40871302 209433 3386077
59 1307666 140911 331295 39505475 1764216 3176644
58 1284534 140414 313796 36623977 948974 1412428
57 1256433 141525 299118 34563851 -109006 463454
56 1204952 139333 290855 33574017 -55115 572460
55 1161304 137310 288281 32575702 -83055 627575
54 1094872 116696 288300 31648424 300141 710630
53 1077184 117803 281466 30425015 103974 410489
52 1018303 116839 276197 29407520 -86303 306515
51 973544 121950 267521 28634878 40764 392818
50 943443 119173 271058 27766141 256240 352054
49 937208 117130 271905 26718343 -139787 95814
48 907294 115214 262991 26075697 48007 235601
47 738314 100628 258588 25268173 285695 187594
46 705557 87430 256433 24402124 -98101 -98101
45 710648 84908 264747 23963671
Another example?
1991
Infant Baptisms - 1,147,976
First Communions - 776,809 (only 67% of Infant Baptisms!)
Confirmations - 510,860 (only 66% of First Communions!)
Less than half of all Catholics baptised make it as far as Confirmation!
Another example?
1965 - Number of Seminarians - 48,750 in 571 Seminaries in the US
1990 - Number of Seminarians - 5,646 in 235 Seminaries
Another example? Adult Baptism (Conversions)
1960 - 146,212
1965 - 123,149
1970 - 92,670
1980 - 81,968
1990 - 82,409
Need more? Look up ordinations, number of religious sisters, number of priests, etc. And don't just limit yourself to the US - look worldwide, the negative trends are the same.
What a blossoming! What a springtime of faith! (If you were special Vatican II approved rose-colored glasses.)
Anyone who praises the springtime of Vatican II has less credibility than the Iraqi information minister.
Columns are Year, Infant Bapstism, Adult Baptisms, Deaths, Total Catholics, Annual Number of Apostates, Net Total of Apostates. In the 1945-1961 period, the Apostate number is positive, which means more people were joining the Church, immigrating, or returning to the Church each year (although there are only 60 million some Catholics registered, there are easily 80-100 million people whose religious ancestory is Catholic). The negative number for 1962-1987 is the number who apostosized and left. In net, natural growth of the Church gave us 19 million new Catholics, but growth was only 10.5 million because 8.5 million left the Church (and this at a time of rapid immigration of Catholic foreigners from Mexico, Phillipines, etc.).
We'd have done so much better if Otto Von Bismarck was recognized as the Holy Roman Emperor, I'm sure.