Posted on 05/03/2003 11:44:05 AM PDT by anncoulteriscool
Actually, John MacAuthur is a Reformed Baptist. Like Presbyterians, Reformed Baptsist are Calvinists. They differ with Presbyterians in the following areas:
1) Reformed Baptists are Congregational in Government form while Presbyterians use a Presbyterian Form that the US Congress was modeled on.There are other minor differences, but if you look at the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Baptist Confession of 1689, you find very few differences in doctrine, in fact the Baptist Confession of 1689 mentions this in it's introduction. The Church of the Brethern is Arminian, and would be opposed to much of MacAuthur's teaching on the Doctrines of Grace. As Far as i am aware, Reformed Baptist Congregations are independent of one another, and have no organisational body like the Southern Baptist Convention, or the American Baptist Convention.
2) The Baptists do only believer's baptism, while Presbyterians baptise infants.
3) Baptists celebrate the Lord's Supper as a Memorial only, Presbyterians believe that Christ is Spiritually present in the sacrament (not Physically present!)
Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries is also Reformed Baptist.
Once again MacArthur nails it. I think this is the number one biggest problem today. Just "believe" , say the sinners prayer and that's it. No need to put on the righeousness of Christ.
Once again MacArthur nails it. I think this is the number one biggest problem today. Just "believe" , say the sinners prayer and that's it. No need to put on the righeousness of Christ.
So salvation is the result of HARD WORK, huh? Are you saved because you believe, or are you saved because you work real hard at it?
Are they planning on wearing Hawaiian shirts in the pulpit, too?
We've been to Saddleback services a few times with relatives. Our younger son calls it "Church du Soleil."
It's "church as therapy." Their guideline is "what has church done for you lately?" They have it backwards.
Warren's made a fortune on that book, and God is not the richer for it, IMO.
"Worship is an end to itself; not a means to an end."
Great line, OldCodger. The antithesis of Saddleback.
yes written in 2000 I believe
Not hard at all friend, but quite different from the current theology of "I can do whatever I want because I'm saved." I suggest that you read MacArthurs "The Gospel According to Jesus" for a thorough and better explanation.
And who preaches that?
Actually, I would say that a much more dangerous teaching is one which states that in order to be saved you must continue to keep the Mosaic laws. What that says is that Jesus statement on the cross that "it is finished" was a lie.
Did not Jesus die for all your sins? What can you do besides claiming the blood of Jesus over your sins that will save you? Does living a good life free from the outward manifestations of sin save you? Does it keep you saved? Or are you saved wholly and totally by the saving grace of Jesus?
Are you, if you believe in Christ, capable of committing a sin that Jesus did not die for?
Well the visible church would be defined as all professing Christian that adhere to the creeds..God will seperate the sheep from the goats. We do not need to be concerned with that, BUT we do need to profess the gosple to that unsaved visible church as well as those outside the church
I believe that a belief in the Trinity and the PHYSICAL ressurection of Christ is also essential for salvation.
Some church like Dougs substitute historic Christian teachings for the Jewish law..
Saving faith must be in the right thing!
I believe that those beliefs are signs that the sinner has actually believed and has salvation, but any understanding of such complex doctrines as the trinity and an acknowledgement of the physical ressurection of Christ is clearly not necessary in order to be saved. If so then the thief on the cross was doomed.
Do you think that the 3000 souls that were saved on the day of pentacost had any idea of the trinity? Did they understand the principles of the physical resurrection of Christ? Or did they simply respond to the calling of the Holy Spirit in order to be saved?
Gee Mom, for a Calvinist it seems that you have added a lot of conditions for God's unconditional grace.
Perhaps you should go back a bit further for a bigger slice of the picture < /mixed metaphor>. Early American Literature is mostly composed of sermons, particularly Puritan sermonns. One should consider a Jonathan Edwards, who every week composed a sermon of a two or three hour length. It was read from the pulpit, so that it had to be handwritten as well. Imagine the study that would be involved in producing a consistent manuscript that long, as well as the concentration involved in doing it in a week's time without computers or typewriters, electricity, ball point pens, legal pads, etc.
Then consider how different it is today when the congregation can hardly bear a 20 minute sermon that in usually extemporaneous. Some studies suggest that the average church goer forgets a sermon an hour after it is preached.
It is sad when we see how far we have fallen, even though we do have more liesure time, and modern conveniences.
Q) What is the Chief and Greatest End of Man?To the New American Slandard Version of the Catechism that reads:
A) The Chief and Greatest end of Man is to Glorify God and Fully to Enjoy Him Forever.
Q) What is the Chief and Greatest End of Man?This is where that kind of "worship" leads us. And here is a question for all concerned: If we cannot show respect and reverence for God in our worship, how are we going to treat one another?
A) The Chief and Greatest End of Man is to Glorify Himself and to have God Fully Enjoy Man Forever.
Think about that one.
While Edwards is to be commended for his hard work, the published sermons that I have reviewed appear to run between 4500 and 8000 words. At a normal speaking voice (125 words per minute-- most preachers today speak at about 175 words per minute) these sermons by Edwards would last anywhere from 35 to 65 minutes.
Unless the published sermons have been edited for content, I don't think that Edwards would have been preaching for 3 hours non-stop. Many preachers today have 3 or 4 services every Sunday plus mid-week bible studies and they preach an hour per service. Is their dedication to be discounted? Are they less the servant of God than Edwards?
Let us not forget that if you fell asleep during a Puritan sermon you could be flogged. There was an incentive to keep awake that you don't have in today's church. People today attend church because they WANT to, not because the have to. That was not always the case in the days of the Reformation and the days of Puritan America.
Obviously you feel this situation needs correcting, so I assume that God has called you to full time ministry and you will begin this reformation of the modern Church immediately? Perhaps you could publish some of your "sound doctinal" sermons for us here on FR after you send them out to the masses?
Or do you feel, as an armchair critic, that God can simply call others to this task?
It is true that by today's standards the time length would be as you say. In my days in college debate, 600-800 wpm was not unheard of (yes, it is virtually incomprehensible!). It is also true that we have been Steadily increasing the rate that we speak at. Notice the length of the sentences that Edwards and others used. It is comparable to the sentence length of the Greek New Testament (which, as you may no doubt guess, is quite long). It would require a slower pace in order to understand the speaker. You may also not be aware that Edwards was reputed to have had a speach impediment (i believe that he stuttered, though i may be mistaken about the particular malady).
Unless the published sermons have been edited for content, I don't think that Edwards would have been preaching for 3 hours non-stop. Many preachers today have 3 or 4 services every Sunday plus mid-week bible studies and they preach an hour per service. Is their dedication to be discounted? Are they less the servant of God than Edwards?
i have no idea what your sources are, so i would not be able to tell you whether they are abridged or not. My source is the late Dr. John H. Gerstner, a scholar of Jonathan Edwards, and the teacher of R.C. Sproul (both from Pittsburgh). i do not know how many services Edwards held at North Hampton and other churches, though because of the total length of service, i doubt that 3 or 4 would have been possible. i can tell you this: i have never heard any preacher do an expository sermon for an hour length. i have been in a variety of different churches in different traditions running from Assembly of God to Episcopalian, From Covenanter to Catholic, and a variety of "independents". Twelve to twenty minutes is the average. As per dedication, all i have to go upon is what God has given, namely the fruits of the ministry. That means i would have to look at each on a case-by-case basis, so i do not need to tell you that i will remain ignorant on that particular issue. Somehow though, i don't see a Great Awakening coming out of Saddleback or Willow Creek. All i see coming out of those places are 1) a Remnant chosen by God, headed for other places; and 2) a "dumbded-down" church that is afflicted by "God-lite".
Let us not forget that if you fell asleep during a Puritan sermon you could be flogged. There was an incentive to keep awake that you don't have in today's church. People today attend church because they WANT to, not because the have to. That was not always the case in the days of the Reformation and the days of Puritan America.
Many of the colonies such as Mass. had complete religious toleration, which meant that groups such as Catholics and Deists could exist. While in the 17th Century, church attendance was compulsory, this was not the case in the 18th Century. Franklin and Jefferson did not regularly attend, and many others could not for distance. Keep in mind that church buildings were often poorly ventilated, lit and/or heated with open fires in candles, lamps and stoves. Oxygen depletion was a problem and would be manifested in sleep. Indeed, these measures while seeming draconian, may have saved lives in an era where carbon monoxide was unknown.
And who preaches that? :-)
I would say that letting Christ live in us and through us is ceding our will to God. Christ did not and will not sin. He never broke any biblcal law, in fact he created them. The only laws he ever broke were the laws of men.
Faith in God means having the faith to LET him live in and through us. It means yielding to his power and will and letting him change and convert us.
Simple "belief" is addressed in scripture:
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
In other words, WORKS is the proof of faith. It means that we are letting God work in us.
A refusal to follow scripture and obey God is simply a denial of his lordship over us.
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