[so_real]

"Disciple" came from the Greek "math-ay-tes" meaning learner, or student. All those who followed Jesus specifically to learn from Him was a disciple.

Apostle came from the Greek "ap-os-tol-os" meaning messenger, or ambassador. These served as the foundation of the Christian Church.

All apostles were disciples, but not all disciples became apostles. (ref. John 6:66)

The twelve disciples did not become the twelve apostles until after the crucifixion when Jesus was raised up, had breathed the Holy Spirit onto the Twelve, taught them, and sent them out into the world as messengers in His wake. Of course, this was also after Judas was replaced by Matthias.

So, you are right! I was premature in describing them as apostles instead of disciples. That would be in the future and one of them would not make the final cut. I will be sure to correct this in my future commentary. Thank you!

Still, at the beginning of John Chapter 6 Jesus had a large following and at the end of John Chapter 6 Jesus had only the pre-selected twelve *disciples* (caught myself that time:-).

The brunt of Chapter 6 is the historical "how and why" He weeded out His disciples. John is completely historical in his writing here. I agree that it *is* a great predestination chapter. But it is also very clear this predestination applied here only to the pre-selected twelve disciples. Jesus confirmed this in John 6:70 saying specifically "Have not I chosen you twelve".

Again, I totally agree that the selection of the twelve disciples was predestined. Jesus knew who they would be long before He began weeding (or cast'ing out) those who would not be numbered among the twelve. But I totally disagree that this historical account of the "elect" disciples' selection is solid footing for the foundation of an entire predestination theology.

John wrote this as a history, and I accept it as a history (and what an incredible history it is!).

[RnMomof7]

Again, I totally agree that the selection of the twelve disciples was predestined. Jesus knew who they would be long before He began weeding (or cast'ing out) those who would not be numbered among the twelve. But I totally disagree that this historical account of the "elect" disciples' selection is solid footing for the foundation of an entire predestination theology.

So the whole thing was a crap shoot?