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To: P-Marlowe
He will not choose you and He has not chosen you unless and until you do ask to be chosen.

So it's a man-centered, man-determined salvation you're postulating once again. There's no other way to see it. The decision is all up to man.

And you are no more fallen than Paul was, Marlowe.

God created Paul to kill Christians, and then He turned Paul's heart from hatred and brought him to glory.

God does the same for all whom He chooses.

Not the other way around.

442 posted on 04/28/2003 3:37:08 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
God created Paul to kill Christians

Just so that we can get this straight, you believe that God compelled Paul to commit murder. Correct?

Paul was doing what God had intended for him to do, what he had created him to do, what was good and glorious in God's eyes, when Paul was murdering Christians. Right?

In essence it was a good and wonderful work that Paul was doing when he was murdering Christians. Correct?

Is that it? Have I been properly enlightened with the truth of the Gospel now?

Or are you having a bit of trouble enunciating the correct position?

446 posted on 04/28/2003 3:59:33 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; so_real
I believe that God chooses man, that man can never find God on his own, thus the hopelessness of man-centered religions. We are also trying to understand Someone Whom we can only know about through His means of revelation to us.

Even on wild men God endowed a conscience so that they know right and wrong. Before the incarnation of Christ, if they did not have God's revelation, they are judged on their ability to do as their inner voice directed regarding the right things to do.

Now, is it man choosing God that is the issue here or something else? Isn't it man choosing to do the will of God, either do, as he is instructed through revelation, or what his conscience says to do? "Choose this day whom you will serve, God or mammon." Why would we be told to choose, if we were incapable of it? Even Cain would have done good if he had just offered the sacrifice in the method God prescribed.

The sun shines on the just and the unjust alike. If the Bushman has never heard of Christ, yet does only good to others, he is following the Law placed in his heart. If he thieves and kills and lies, he does not and he faces a judgment more severe than if he was a moral man.

Choosing to be obedient to God, is not the same as "choosing God."

457 posted on 04/28/2003 5:29:09 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke)
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