Posted on 04/16/2003 5:39:27 AM PDT by RaceBannon
Yes, but after 6pm on Saturday, it's Sunday on the Jewish calendar, right? So He did rise on Sunday! Those early Christians weren't so dumb! :o)
I understand but it's actually bibically sunset that a new day begins. But be that as it may, biblically Passover was instituted as a separate feast from the days of unleavened bread. The clearest evidence is here:
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
It's right there. Passover starts the evening (sunset) of Nissan 14, the beginning of the day. The Days of Unleavened Bread start at sunset at the beginning of Nissan 15. It runs for 7 days.
That means that in order to eat the Passover Lamb in the evening of the 14th, which begins at 6pm, which is the beginning of the Jewish Day, 6pm, the Lamb had to be killed on the afternoon of the 13th, in order for the meal to be prepared and eaten on the evening of the 14th,
The lamb was to be killed at the start of Passover, on the 14th of Nissan, at sunset. The 14th day started at sunset and that's when they were to kill the lamb. They had all night to cook it and eat it. There's no scriptural support that shows they killed it on the 13th.
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
They were to keep the lamb until the 14th, at sunset. Then they were to kill it that evening, the evening of the 14th, after sunset.
Exo 12:18 KJV) In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
The 14th to the 21st is one week, the Feast of Unleavened Bread is to be 7 days, that is clear from this verse what dates define that week.
Okay, so we have one verse that clearly says Passover is one feast and the days of ulb is a separate 7 day, right?
Yet as you pointed out in this verse:
Exo 12:18 KJV) In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
It seems that the whole thing is only 7 days. That's a contradiction.
Now for this you're going to have to do some digging because it's not obvious. But Exodus 12:6 and Exodus 12:18 actually use two different hebrew phrases that are translated "even". And Strongs concordance lists them as the same word, BUT they are not. This can be proven by looking at the scroll at blue letter bible. If you carefully look at the hebrew wording and compare verse 6 to 12, you can see it's not the same hebrew word used for "even". I'm now going to quote from a doctrinal paper our church did on the OT passover.
The term “at evening” is used twice in Exodus 12:18. What is the meaning of this phrase? The Hebrew term here is quite different from the one found in Exodus 12:6. Why was Moses inspired to use a different term? The obvious reason is that he had a different meaning in mind. The phrase “at even” in the AV comes from the Hebrew ba- erev. It generally means “sunset,” although it can refer to the time of darkness—the evening (erev). By comparing Exodus 12:18 with Leviticus 23:32 we come to the conclusion that satisfies all the scriptures. There are only seven days of Unleavened Bread and the first day is the 15th (Leviticus 23:6). The term “at even” when interpreted to be sunset can be either sunset at the beginning of a day or sunset at the end of the day. We have a similar situation with our term “midnight.” Each year on December 31 at the stroke of midnight, a new year begins AND the old year ends. Exodus 12:18 is telling us that when the sun sets at the end of the 14th, the first day of Unleavened Bread begins. The last of the seven days will end when the sun sets on the 21st day of the month. This gives us seven days of Unleavened Bread (15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21), just as we have one day of Atonement (9th day at even [sunset] until the 10th day at even [sunset]).
In other words, exodus 12:18 is counting from sunset at the BEGINNING of the 14th, to sunset at the END of the 21st...or 8 periods of sunset to sunset.
Okay, well what about not eating any leavened products on passover if it's not part of the feast of unleavened bread? The answer is that the passover meal was a sacrifice to God and anything leavened is not acceptable as a sacrifice:
Lev 2:11 Any food offering which you shall bring to Jehovah shall not be made with leaven. For you shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, in any offering of Jehovah made by fire.
This is also borne out by Lev. 6:17 and Lev. 10:12.
Man this has turned out to be one long post. Lest you think that I was smart enough to figure out all this on my own, I wasn't. I've studied that doctrinal paper our church did and it makes sense, although there's always a chance of mistakes being made in interpretation.
Doctrinal papers on this subject are available on this page.
"Passover of Exodus 12 [updated]" contains more study than you'll ever want on OT passover, while "Passover of Exodus 12 (Appendix)" contains more indepth on the meaning of the Hebrew "even" as pertains to Exodus 12:6 and Exodus 12:18.
Good luck!
Thanks, I'm fairly well versed on it. :-)
Also, ask any Orthodox Jew what day the Lamb is Killed for Passover.
It is the 13th.
I really have no idea what time they kill the lambs today. In that doctinal paper it discusses how biblically Passover observance changed throughtout the centuries. When it came to slaughtering the lambs, I was primarily getting to the root of what God commanded at the institution of Passover.
Listen, I'm not trying to argue with you about this stuff. Like I said I agree with 95% of your post. I'm just pointing out where my understanding differs. Take it or leave it I guess. :-)
Okay, maybe we're just using different terminology. Biblically Passover IS the preparation day for the first day of Unleavened Bread. Remember how the bible shows that the day of Passover, which begins on nisan 14 did not have a commandment to rest? That means it's not a sabbath. But it is a preparation day for the high sabbath of the first day of unleavened bread which follows.
The new testaments uses the terms "passover" and "days of unleavened bread" almost interchangably.:
Luk 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
Even today Jews don't make much of a distinction between the two, but they are biblically separate.
So yes, in this verse:
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, Behold your king!
"Passover" is what technically and biblically is the first day of unleavened bread, or Nisan 15:
Lev 23:6 and on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to Jehovah. You must eat unleavened bread seven days.
The preparation day for this IS the biblical passover day:
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.
Understand? The death of Jesus MUST occur on passover, Nisan 14, that the original passover was killed. Must.
At the same time that the original passover lamb was killed (the beginning of Nisan 14 at sunset), Jesus had the last supper and instituted the remembrance of his death by the symbols of bread and wine:
Okay?
I'm mystified why you argue with this:
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth [day] of the first month at even [is] the LORD'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
It's not just me on this. Matthew Henrys commentary says about Passover:
"This was to be annually observed as a feast of the Lord in their generations, to which the feast of unleavened bread was annexed, during which, for seven days, they were to eat no bread but what was unleavened, in remembrance of their being confined to such bread, of necessity, for many days after they came out of Egypt"
And you are dead wrong to state that the Passover Meal was NOT eaten the NIGHT of the Passover, which would be immediately after 6pm Nisan 14,
I did not say that. I said the lamb was killed after sunset, at the beginning of Nisan 14. They had ALL night to cook and eat it:
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it.
Exo 12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
As far as how hungry they were, God made sure that each family didn't have to hork down an entire lamb:
Exo 12:4 And if the household is too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next to his house take according to the number of the souls, each one, according to the eating of his mouth, you shall count concerning the lamb.
Many families might eat one lamb, depending on the family size.
it was, the Lamb had to be killed imediately before on the 13th, the day of preparation, in order for it to be eaten.
Okay, my evidence that the lamb was killed on the 14th, not the 13th is this:
Deu 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
These are two verses that clearly indicate that the lambs were killed on the 14th, at sunset (the beginning of the 14th).
Now as far as I can see, your evidence that they were slain on the 13th is because you deduced that. Yet the bible does not say that anywhere. It clearly says the 14th. Passover is focused on the 14th.
Thanks for your input, but it appears you are making your doctrine tell you what the Bible says, instead of letting the Bible tell you what your doctrine should be.
lol...I feel the same way about you! I'm showing you what are irrefutable facts and you seem to not want to hear them.
Well, I've been accused of worse. :-)
I didn't mean to offend you or make an enemy out of you. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. It's just that I too put a lot of time and effort into studying this particular issue and I feel strongly about.
The exact dates probably aren't that important. What is important is that Christ was sacrificed for our sins.
Enjoy!
Lots of men diesd onn the cross..the important thing is God raised Him bodily from the grave
1Cr 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. </font color>
Absolutely correct! The Bodily Resurrection is the key to our faith. Not a spiritual resurrection, not a spiritual body raised from the dead, but Jesus' own human body, glorified, flesh and bone, raised from the dead.
Amen, and Amen!
Matthew 12
38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."
39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 13: 1 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake.
Later...
Matthew 15: 32 Jesus called his disciples to him and said, "I have compassion for these people; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry, or they may collapse on the way."
39 After Jesus had sent the crowd away, he got into the boat and went to the vicinity of Magadan.
The next day...
Matthew 16 1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 He replied, "When evening comes, you say, `It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,´ 3 and in the morning, `Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.´ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
We have the sign of Jonah, but no three days and three nights?? He had just fulfilled that part.
Now the sign of Jonah!
2 Kings 14:25 He was the one who restored the boundaries of Israel from Lebo Hamath to the Sea of the Arabah, in accordance with the word of the LORD, the God of Israel, spoken through his servant Jonah son of Amittai, the prophet from Gath Hepher.
The restored boundaries of Israel! 1967!
A big little war
In June, 1967, there was a short, violent war between Israel and the Arab nations, called the Six-Day War. Israel prevailed, and captured the old city of Jerusalem, along with other territory. This is significant especially because the Israeli recapture of Jerusalem ended the "times of the Gentiles" spoken of by the Prophets. Jerusalem had been under Gentile domination for more than 2,000 years. Then it became, once again, a Jewish city, and events prophesied in conjunction with that began to occur.
At about the same time another event took place, which is only now being noticed by most of the world, but which is also an important event: The modern Messianic Jewish movement became a reality about the time of the Six-Day War.
For the first time in over 1,500 years, Jews generally were free to come to faith in Yeshua as their Messiah, and remain Jews. For the first time, there are Jewish congregations who believe in Jesus, the Jewish Messiah. And, amazingly, non-Jews have joined these believing Jews in worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in a Jewish manner: there are as many "Messianic believers" (non-Jewish believers who adopt a Jewish lifestyle) as there are Messianic Jews.
http://www.quodlibet.net/lbaden-messianic.shtml
Galilee, Sea of: ( Mat 4:18; 15:29), is mentioned in the Bible under three other names. ( 1.) In the Old Testament it is called the "sea of Chinnereth" ( Num 34:11; Jos 12:3; 13:27), as is supposed from its harp-like shape. ( 2). The "lake of Gennesareth" once by Luke ( Luk 5:1), from the flat district lying on its west coast. ( 3.) John ( Jhn 6:1; 21:1) calls it the "sea of Tiberias" ( q.v.). The modern Arabs retain this name, Bahr Tabariyeh.
This lake is 12 1/2 miles long, and from 4 to 7 1/2 broad. Its surface is 682 feet below the level of the Mediterranean. Its depth is from 80 to 160 feet. The Jordan enters it 10 1/2 miles below the southern extremity of the Huleh Lake, or about 26 1/2 miles from its source. In this distance of 26 1/2 miles there is a fall in the river of 1,682 feet, or of more than 60 feet to the mile. It is 27 miles east of the Mediterranean, and about 60 miles north-east of Jerusalem. It is of an oval shape, and abounds in fish.
Its present appearance is thus described: "The utter loneliness and absolute stillness of the scene are exceedingly impressive. It seems as if all nature had gone to rest, languishing under the scorching heat. How different it was in the days of our Lord! Then all was life and bustle along the shores; the cities and villages that thickly studded them resounded with the hum of a busy population; while from hill-side and corn-field came the cheerful cry of shepherd and ploughman. The lake, too, was dotted with dark fishing-boats and spangled with white sails. Now a mournful, solitary silence reigns over sea and shore. The cities are in ruins!" This sea is chiefly of interest as associated with the public ministry of our Lord. Capernaum, "his own city" ( Mat 9:1), stood on its shores. From among the fishermen who plied their calling on its waters he chose Peter and his brother Andrew, and James and John, to be disciples, and sent them forth to be "fishers of men" ( Mat 4:18,22; Mar 1:16-20; Luk 5:1-11). He stilled its tempest, saying to the storm that swept over it, "Peace, be still" ( Mat 8:23-27; Mar 7:31-35); and here also he showed himself after his resurrection to his disciples ( 21). Jhn 21).
"The Sea of Galilee is indeed the cradle of the gospel. The subterranean fires of nature prepared a lake basin, through which a river afterwards ran, keeping its waters always fresh. In this basin a vast quantity of shell-fish swarmed, and multiplied to such an extent that they formed the food of an extraordinary profusion of fish. The great variety and abundance of the fish in the lake attracted to its shores a larger and more varied population than existed elsewhere in Palestine, whereby this secluded district was brought into contact with all parts of the world. And this large and varied population, with access to all nations and countries, attracted the Lord Jesus, and induced him to make this spot the centre of his public ministry."
Psalm 49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
harp
Hebrew for 03658 Kaf-Nun-Vav-Reish
Pronunciation Guide kinnowr {kin-nore'}
from a unused root meaning to twang
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) lyre, harp
AV - harp 42; 42
Hebrew for 03672 Kaf-Nun-Reish-Vav-Tav
Pronunciation Guide Kinn@rowth {kin-ner-oth'} or Kinnereth {kin-neh'-reth}
respectively pl. and sing. fem. from the same as 03658
Outline of Biblical Usage
Chinneroth or Cinneroth or Chinnereth = "harps"
1) the early name of the Sea of Galilee
2) a town and district in Naphtali near the Sea of Galilee
AV - Chinnereth 4, Chinneroth 2, Cinneroth 1
Hi Colleen,
In the Wednesday crucification scenario Wednesday night begins a sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread (or Passover depending on what terminology used). It doesn't refer to the regular weekly sabbath which being Friday evening.
These are annual sabbaths, holy days, as outlined in Leviticus 23.
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