Gordon B. Hinkley (LDS Prophet) comments on War

www.lds.org ^ | April 7, 2003 | Gordon B. Hinkley

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

My feeling is rather anecdotal too, but I believe that there is a rather high percentage of Mormons who have served their country (and continue to do so). The church encourages service and considers the military to be an honorable occupation.

[Not Insane]

>>Perhaps religion should be added. Religious hatred is not limited to Islamic fanatics, it seems. <<

I agree.

I will add this however: The most religiously intolerant man that ever lived IS Jesus the Christ.
"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me."

It is ok to hate what is EVIL. We are to hate the evil religions, but love and attempt to prosthelize those within them. That is the example of Christ. But as Christians, the strongest action we are to take AGAINST those who refuse to follow Jesus is to "shake the dust off our feet."

You also gotta ask, who are the Lords people?

[Not Insane]

>>Explain to me how you can demonstrate such raw HATE towards a kind, elderly man and still call yourself a Christian.<<

I see no hate in his post. I see an opinion on the credibility of a man, much the way many have commented on Clinton.

But that is not hate.

[RussellStevens]

I have heard figures that it is higher than the overall percentage for the general population. I go to the LDS Church owned college, BYU, and there is a very large Army and Air Force ROTC program. They are given a lot of respect, and the campus overall is very conservative and honors America (everyone stops and faces the flag when the national anthum is played at 8:25am and 5:25pm). There have been collections for troop donations for a couple of months now, and lots of people wear yellow ribbons.

To those who think this speech was given after the fact, it was given Sunday, 4/6/2003, before everyone knew this campaign was a sucess. Also if you read any talks (ex: during Cold War) from Church leaders you will see they said everyone needs freedom.

[Spiff]

(everyone stops and faces the flag when the national anthem is played at 8:25am and 5:25pm).

Here's a challenge for all the Mormon bashers. Name one major university on which the National Anthem is played twice a day and on which "everyone" stops and faces the flag when it is played.

Here's another challenge for the Mormon bashers. Find and post a better pro-freedom statement supporting American involvement in the conflict in Iraq written or spoken by the leader of any major, international religious faith.

[Spiff]

"The fight for freedom is God's fight. Freedom is an eternal law of God. Men cannot break it with impunity, but can only break themselves upon it. When a man stands for freedom, he stands for God. As long as he stands for freedom, he stands with God. And were he to stand alone, he would still stand with God. Any man will be eternally vindicated and rewarded for his stand for freedom." - President Ezra Taft Benson, Served as President of the LDS Church from 1985-1994

[Not Insane]

__Here's a challenge for all the Mormon bashers. Name one major university on which the National Anthem is played twice a day and on which "everyone" stops and faces the flag when it is played.__

I'm not a Mormon "basher" but I don't understand the spiritual superiority of a religious organization that plays a countries "national anthem" more than some other church.

__Find and post a better pro-freedom statement supporting American involvement in the conflict in Iraq written or spoken by the leader of any major, international religious faith.__

Most simply ignore the Idea of making a public statement on any ephemeral conflict, as did Jesus as well as the 12.

[Spiff]

You failed the challenge. Next!

[Not Insane]

__You failed the challenge.__

In what way? And I am most definitely not a "basher."

My challenge to you is: In what way is the spiritual credibility of any religious organization enhanced by overt patriotic statements and activities, for or against the current government.

Where would the early church have been if they had put their faith in Rome?

Although I believe Christians can, and should be politically active, I most definitely do not believe it is the place of the church organization, including my own. Nor do I believe it enhances a churches "spiritual credibility" and, in fact, I believe it can damage the same, on occasion.

'Course, that's just my opinion.

[Myrddin]

In GWI (1991), the Elder's Quorum in my ward dropped from 40 to 10 people when the reserves were called up. We had lots of pilots and doctors. About 10 of the kids in the 18 year old age range signed up and shipped out too. In the intervening 10 years, my son and two of his buddies have joined the Marine Corps. My anecdotal experience is that your inclination is wrong.

BTW, we had a husband/wife pair in the 18-year group that served in GWI. The son and daughter-in-law of a lawyer who taught the Gospel Principles classes to people investigating the church.

[Myrddin]

One of the kids in my ward accepted an appointment to West Point. Two years into his education (with a 4.0 GPA), he took a 2 year pause for his mission. He has since returned and graduated from West Point.

[LTCJ]

Two years into his education (with a 4.0 GPA), he took a 2 year pause for his mission. He has since returned and graduated from West Point.

???

As an alumnus, I find this very hard to believe. A two year, self-elected, turnback? You don't just enroll in USMA and then take an extended spring break.

I would find it easier to believe that Saddam just accepted an appoint since he no longer has anything else going.

[Myrddin]

His name is Wesley MacDonald. I believe he also played on the football team.

[Migraine]

"My anecdotal experience is that your inclination is wrong"

I did find a Dep. of Defense site that did some demographics. While they did not divulge percentages per religion, they did give some regional stats. The one I found most useful in this context was a chart showing enlistments as a percentage of the total 18-24 age group, state-by-state.

It showed that Utah was low in the nation, along with Minnesota and Massachusetts, at around .6% of that age group being in the military.

High on the list were several southern states, along with Wyoming and Montana. These states are at 1.3%-1.8% of the age group.

To whatever extent Utah is a any barometer of Mormon participation in the military, I'd say my inclination was fairly correct.

You could see the comparisons by pasting this URL into your address window, or by clicking here:
http://dod.mil/prhome/poprep2000/html/chapter2/c2_geography.htm

[maui_hawaii]

What's wrong with hillbillies?

Hillbillies in and of themselves, possibly not a lot. I was however referring to a specific type of hillbilly. The specific type I refer to was the bible bashing, bible thumping, damning-everyone-to-hell, know it all, major league asshole who knows everything there is about the bible, but has never left his or her own county somewhere up in the Ozarks. Not to mention he/she is probably sleeping with half the people in town, but proclaiming their own righteousness in the process.

These types of people are the utmost of self righteous Pharasee hypocrites. That is exactly mrflashrifle is, baring that he might come from somewhere else other than the Ozarks.

[Bob J]

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[maui_hawaii]

As an alumnus, I find this very hard to believe. A two year, self-elected, turnback? You don't just enroll in USMA and then take an extended spring break.

I personally know several people who have done this for the US Airforce Academy, and know of several others who have done it with West Point.

Of of my best friends told the Academy that he was leaving. They asked him why, and he said "mission".

They told him there won't be a guaranteed spot for him, until they found out he was learning Cantonese, and would come back a fluent speaker. At that point they promised him a spot to return to before he ever left.

[StolarStorm]

Any religion that sends people to my door uninvited is a cult.

[Little Bill]

Here's a challenge for all the Mormon bashers..

Here is another, what other religion considers the Constitution a Divinely inspired document?

[maui_hawaii]

Well Jesus must have been a cultist in your book. And all of his Apostles too.