Rabbi warns: Some Christians are attempting to convert Jews

PJ Star.Com (Journal Star) ^ | April 1, 2003 | Sarah Okeson

[ComtedeMaistre]

Rabbi warns: Some Christians are attempting to convert Jews

Speaker says congregations should watch out for Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God

April 1, 2003

By SARAH OKESON of the Journal Star

PEORIA - Jews believing in Jesus as savior, says Rabbi Michael Cook, makes about as much sense as an International Society of Vegetarians for Meat.

"How can you eat meat and still be a vegetarian?" Cook asked.

Cook, perhaps the only rabbi in the United States with a Ph.D. in the New Testament, talked to about 60 people Monday at the synagogue shared by the two Jewish congregations in Peoria.

Cook, a professor at the Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion in Cincinnati, said some Christian denominations have stepped up their efforts to convert Jews in the belief it will help bring about the second coming of Christ.

"They believe the only way that glorious end of the world can happen is if enough Jews move to Israel first or accept Jesus," Cook said.

He predicted Jews have about three more decades of strenuous conversion efforts to suffer through because the last time this happened - after the first millennium - efforts to convert Jews didn’t die out until 1035.

"We have 32 years of missionary fervor to get through," Cook said.

In the meantime, Cook ran through a list of believers to watch out for including Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews.

He said Southern Baptist and Assemblies of God are sometimes misleading in their efforts to convert Jews and that Jews for Jesus was founded by a Baptist minister.

"Their big desire is to convert Jews without Jews knowing they are leaving the Jewish fold," Cook said of Jews for Jesus.

The rabbi said Catholics and liberal Protestants stopped trying to convert Jews after the Holocaust and said Jews had a convenant with God and didn’t need to worry about being saved.

[F16Fighter]

"Hey, you didn't address those points."

(YAWN)

[BrooklynGOP]

Exactly. You made stuff up, you threw out allegations, and when asked to back them up you yawned. The benefits of a public forum is that there are many more of those who just read then those who post. Very good.

[Texaggie79]

This Rabbi sounds pretty insecure in his faith. I am not threatened by other christians being told of other faiths. I don't feel a need to "protect" them from hearing people of other faiths. And you know what? If they convert, that's their business.

[Cicero]

Chosen People means, specifically, the people God chose to make His Covenant with. Jews can be as good or as bad as anyone else, but for whatever reason God chose to make a special Covenant with them. It's the basic story of Genesis and Exodus.

[Cicero]

Some of the Catholic hierarchy told us Catholics that converting Jews was wrong. I think they made an error, but they did say that.

Quite true. But their statement had no official weight, and they were very quickly brought to task for saying something so stupid. If Christians believe that salvation comes through Christ, then they would be wrong to leave anyone out.

[Bellflower]

There are different groups of saved people in the Bible. One group is the Israelites, one is the Church and one are the gentiles. It is only when you come to understand this that the Bible can be rightly divided. Those in the Church are considered a heavenly people who are given heavenly promisses. We sit in heavenly places with Christ Jesus. Isreal is God's chosen people of the earth with earthly promisses. They were given the high honour of being set apart by God to recieve his Word and chosen as a people to be in the line of The Saviour of the whole earth. God chooses to rule over the earth from the midst of them. He has promissed them the land of Isreal. This will be fullfilled in the age to come. Isreal shall be the joy of the whole earth. The gentile nations shall bring their wealth unto her. Here are some of the many verses that refer to Israel in the future.

Exodus19:5 Now, therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my convenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Zechariah 12:10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of suppliccations: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.....
13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness....
13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Zephaniah 3:20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
60:4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
60:6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall show forth the praises of the LORD.
60:7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory....

keep reading in your Bible up to ...

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish: yea, those nation shall be utterly wasted....

keep reading in your Bible...

60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
60:15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations....

Keep reading all the way through Isaiah 60:22. It gets even more intense.

[TradicalRC]

Interesting question. If Jewishness merely denotes a person's religion then I could see the point. If it is descriptive of ethnicity then it doesn't make sense. If it is indeed the former, then is a Jew who no longer practices his religion still a Jew?

[DensaMensa]

}Jews can be as good or as bad as anyone else, but for whatever reason God chose to make a special Covenant with them. It's the basic story of Genesis and Exodus.

Thank You for that explanation. But when I read Genesis and Exodus it says a special covenent was made with Israelites. It doesn't say anything about Jews ???

[BrooklynGOP]

If they convert, that's their business.

I agree 100%. In fact the rabbi, in this article, is not that agressive when discussing this. Check post #1, though. This guy acts all hurt and pissed because Jews wont' convert. How dare Jews not convert, after Christians support Israel!

[DensaMensa]

}Exodus19:5 Now, therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my convenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people:

I have trouble applying this verse in the way you do. God was talking here to the Israelites, all of them, not to Jews, of which there weren't any.

It also seems tenuous to me to try and equate todays middle-east political entity which almost arbitrarily selected the name Israel, with the people of the Bible who were specifically called Israelites. To read too much into that tenuous link can cause all sorts of mischief IMHO.

[HiTech RedNeck]

If a Christians accepts Mohammed as a prophet...Is he still a Christian?

If he was Christian once he is Christian always; once saved always saved no matter what goofy ideas he may get later. But if he was an impostor, he was never a Christian.

[HiTech RedNeck]

'Losing your salvation' is not in the biblical vocabulary. Failing to gain it at all, is.

[Auntie Dem]

I've heard/read that Mormons believe that after you die, you get your own planet. Or you become a planet. Is this a belief of LDS? Or if not, could you explain the belief to me?

Shirley, you jest. Are you series?

Actually, it's even better than getting a planet, we get EVERYTHING God has! See Romans 8:16 Galatians 4:7. If we do real good and "overcome" we get to be equal to God and sit in his throne with Him. (Revelation 3:21)

I have seen some women in our church as big as a house, but I've never seen one even close to as big as a planet! Well...maybe one.

[Auntie Dem]

I think the Tanner's book has photocopies of same.

I don't mean to be confrontational about this issue either, but I have had nearly 40 year's experience with professional anti-mormons like the Tanners. They are in it strictly for the money.

Most anti-mormons are very much like most liberals--they are a perfect reverse barometer of the truth. A great many of the anti-mormons once supported and promoted by the Tanners were eventually discovered to be major league frauds, complete with fake PHD's, fake book credits, and their share of moral and legal problems; the fact their religious, archaealogical, or linguistic arguments were completely destroyed was just a bonus. The Tanners would never even admit they were promoting frauds and liars, they just went on to the next clown who looked like he had the latest and greatest "silver bullet" to use on the Mormons,

I am familiar with most of the items you referred to, and if I had the time (I won't have any free time until the end of April) I would debunk them for you--if I thought it would make any difference--somehow I don't think anything I could provide (even the gold plates themselves) would do.

[Quix]

You're right,

it's probably not worth the time of either of us.

My thought as I read your post was . . .

IF

the Tanners are as you assert, then evidently they haven't left Mormonism that far.

[Auntie Dem]

Calling Judaism a dead religion will mash a heckuva lot of hot buttons here, and is almost always a very poor evangelical approach.

Would saying it's on life support be OK? ; ^ )

[Quix]

BTW,

the parts of the Tanner book I read didn't come across that way at all.

It actually seemed to be a grass-roots sort of thing done mostly on the low budget. Their heart attitudes seemed to fit their goals and reported background. Just my impressions.

I also THINK, as best I can recall, that the photocopies of the court documents were certified authentic copies from the court.

And then there's the personal experience stuff.

Compared to a mere argument, I'll take my experiences most any day.

Nevertheless, Blessings as you, hopefully, seek to walk ever closer to God Almighty and His Son--King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

[Auntie Dem]

Got DNA?

Where would you get your sample to prove he isn't?

[Proud2BAmerican]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Someone had told me once that Mormons believe that God is a man with a physical body who was redeemed on another planet by another Jesus and achieved godhood, or something like that. I remember hearing that Mormons believed that an infinite number of such gods ruling other planets, and every Mormon male aspires to become a god himself, with his own planet to rule.

I'll make sure to pass along to anyone I hear talking about Mormons' beliefs that they do not believe that. Thanks for answering me.

[Texaggie79]

I think the rabbi and the first poster need to stop bitchin :P