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To: Proud2BAmerican
But if the priest was saying the *technically* incorrect words, but with the *correct* meaning and understanding (that is, he's saying it meaning the appropriate belief regarding Christ's blood shed for men), wouldn't Trent allow for that? Conversely, a priest could say the correct words, but internally disbelieve or mean something else by the words -- would it still be a validly consecrated host? I would imagine not -- and the reason why being the intent of the priest.

For a valid sacrament there are 3 elements required: matter, form and intent. The lack of any 1 element will invalidate the sacrament.

For Baptism, the matter is water -- beer or soda pop is invalid. The eucharist requires plain unleavened bread made with flour and water. Any signicant amount of other matter invalidates it. Many Masses for the past couple decades have been invalid due to matter. My sister-in-law says that every Mass she attended for 4 years at Notre Dame was invalid due to lack of proper matter (they always used invalid bread).

The form is the specific words that cause the effect. In Baptism, one must say, "I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Just recently a priest in Canada was forced to track down dozens of families of children he had baptized in the past couple years because they were all invalid because he said, "I baptize you in the name of Christ, the Savior" (or something to that effect -- leaving out the rest of the Trinity). The words that are necessary to the form in order to validly confect the eucharist are printed in traditional missals separate from the rest of the text and in all capital letters so that the priest doesn't accidentally make a mistake at that part of the Mass which would be more serious than an error in another part. In the New Mass these words were changed significantly such that they mean something different than they used to mean. Thus the "form" of the Mass is different.

The third element is the intent. The priest has to intend to do what the Church intends to do. He does not have to personally intend everything, nor does he have to understand everything perfectly. Even if his understanding is heretical, as long as he intends to do whatever it is that the Church intends him to do, then "ecclessia supplet," the church supplies whatever may be missing in his personal intent. But if he intends to do something different from what the Church intends, if he deliberately does something different in order to have a different result, then the sacrament is invalid.

206 posted on 04/09/2003 8:15:50 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
My sister-in-law says that every Mass she attended for 4 years at Notre Dame was invalid due to lack of proper matter (they always used invalid bread).

Did she not, at the time, realize it was invalid? I can't imagine going to a Mass that I knew was using invalid matter.

SD

207 posted on 04/09/2003 8:33:36 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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