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To: ET(end tyranny)
It is not quite reversible.

We must not neglect to acknowledge the order in which faith and works occur.

Faith in God produces godly works.

First faith ... then works.

James says that works are the evidence of a viable faith.

OTOH, ... nowhere does James claim that godly works will produce justifying faith.

Indeed, without faith ... it is impossible to do good works (works pleasing to God).

It is in this way that faith and works go hand in hand.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (no works here)

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (or here)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, (ah, ... here they are) which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
IOW, we are saved ... by God's grace ... through our faith (belief in Him) ... not by works ... but rather, so that we may do the good works ... which God wills that we do.

194 posted on 04/01/2003 12:03:19 PM PST by Quester
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To: Quester
I think we are looking at it from different perspectives. I see it as good works shows your faith. You see it as faith will bring forth good works. The only problem with that is that faith may not necessarily bring forth good works. The death faith that James speaks of.

Bad works will not show faith. While Good works will. Good works will automatically show your faith. Meanwhile faith isn't always supported with good works.

210 posted on 04/01/2003 2:22:41 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: Quester
No offense but your quotes from Ephesians are from Paul. James is in charge of the Jerusalem Community after the crucifixion, so I give his words more credibility than Paul's when the two disagree on something. So, when Paul keeps saying that works are nothing and James says, Oh vain man, faith without works are dead.

Same thing goes for where Paul says that the law is dead. Jesus tells us otherwise. And so does James. Again, since James is in charge after the crucifixtion, I'll take his word over Paul's, especially Jesus tells us that the law will be in effect until the heavens and the earth pass away.

212 posted on 04/01/2003 2:37:31 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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