Bible Code, Truth or fiction? (Vanity)

3-4-03 | Wingy

[Wingy]

First, I've been registered here for 4 or 5 years. I've made one post, but I reply a fair amount. This is my first vanity. Probably my last.

Several years ago there was a bestselling book titled, "The Bible Code". It was the story of an Israeli math genius that uncovered a "code" imbedded in the first five books of the Bible, also known as the Torah. Using this code, one could find references to contemporaneous events with remarkable accuracy. I read the book when it came out and was impressed, but never saw anything about it in the media.

I'm not a Bible scholar and I was hoping to see some discussion, pro and con, to see if those that knew more than I could help me sort this into the wheat or chaff.

Now there is a sequel, "The Bible Code II" that begins on the morning of 9-11-01. From reading the first page on Amazon.com, it seems to be explosive.

I ordered the book, but now I want to use this brain trust to find if this has been debunked, or is there anything to it?

[Quix]

You guys are funny.

What is left to answer?

[Quix]

God can be fun and funny.

And HIS FOOLISHNESS wiser than our greatest wisdom.

But I haven't often found Him, if ever, silly.

[templar]

... shows emphatically, conclusively now, that your assertions are hogwash.

The only assertion I made is that I can get anything I want out of the program on my computer (it's called Unlocking the Bible Codes). It is not hogwash, it is the result of actually using that program to get anything I want out of it. I simply speculated that I could probably use the same program for War and Peace if it was applied to it, I didn't assert that I actually could. I think that you owe an apology here for calling me, in effect, a liar. That's known as bearing false witness.

BTW, I'll believe in the so called Bible codes when they actually predict something that can be discerned before it happens. Even Nostradamus seems to be more credible thatn the so called codes, and he's not exactly what I call credible.

[Quix]

I feel I've answered abundantly both his obtuse, if jabby points/questions. . . certainly more than sufficiently for my interests.

If you have too much difficulty understanding my answers, that's OK with me. I thought the questions ignorant and arrogant. You/he have not dealt with the significant parts of my points.

Yet you harrangue me. Interesting. What a farce.

[BullDog108]

But I haven't often found Him,

From your hallucinations posted on FreeRepublic, I say that you don't even know Him!

[Just mythoughts]

All the oldest and best manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible contain on every page, beside the Text (which is arranged in two or more colums), a varying number of lines of smaller writing, distributed between the upper and lower margins.

This smaller writing is called the Massorah Magna or Great Massorah, while that in the side margins and between the columns is called the Massorah Parva or Small Massorah.

The word Massorah is from the root "masar", "to deliver something into the hand of another", so as to commit it to his trust. Hence the name is given to the small writing referred to, because it contains information necessary to those into whose trust the Sacred Text was committed, so that they might transcribe it, and hand it down correctly.

The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim (from saphar, to count, or number). Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Neh. 8:8 (cp. Ezra 7:6, 11). The men of "the Great Synagogue" completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410-300 B.C.

The Sopherim were the authorised revisers of the Sacred Tex; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorised custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. the Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places. It does not contain notes or comments as such, but facts and phenomena. It records the number of times the several letters occur in the various books of the Bible; the number of words, and the middle word; the number of verses, and the middle verse; the number of expressions and combinations of words, etc. All this, not from a preverted igenuity, but for the set purpose of safeguarding the Sacred Text, and preventing the loss or misplacement of a single letter or word.

There is more but basically the word was written and then notes added to lock the words and letters in. Protects the Written Word from man's hands.

This comes from the Companion Bible Appendixe 30 The Massorah. Reason I use this Bible is that it aides the student in being able to look up the words used, in the Strong's Concordance

[Frapster]

Fiction. I see some of the most rediculous claims made from the supposed Bible Code. But the reality is that you can take 'substantiated' Bible codes and, using the same passages, make other predictions or assessments of the past/present/future that are totally bogus. The 'messages' are infinitessimal and nothing more than numerology or even phrenology. Just an opinion.

[WillVoteForFood]

After the 9/11 attacks, a fairly popular Bible Code site took a full page advertisement in USA Today stating how the bible codes they say exist predicted the attack and then went into detail on the timing of the U.N. basically becoming the one world government, predicting that the security council would be expanded to so many members by a specified date. Time and time again, these so-called codes were proven wrong. No less than 3 major predictions in a time frame from 9/11 to December proved to be completely false. That this type of false prophecy is endorsed by people like Paul and Jan Crouch, Hal Lindsey, and others like them should be evidence enough to give pause to its validity. That time and time again, the so-called prophecy proves to be wrong she leave no doubt that bible codes are nothing but a deception.

[Quix]

Wow--what an unBiblical comment!

Clearly you know me far toooooooo little to make such an assessment.

And/or your application of Biblical principles in such matters is in left field beyond Pluto.

BullDog seems an apt name for you. Get such a deathgrip on a distortion or falsehood long enough and you may begin to construe it true. Fascinating.

Pride must be wrapped up in there somehow. It just has that flavor about it.

I'm glad I'm my Beloved's and He is mine and that He knows my downsittings and my uprisings. I'm thankful for our 2 hours together in dialogue beginning each of my days. I'm thankful for even the brokenness that's taught me more of His priorities and character. I'm thankful for The Word He's burned into every cell and fiber of my being. I'm thankful for the opportunities to Love the Chinese people--especially students--in His Name, Love and caring. I'm even thankful He's teaching me more patience with arrogant idiots even if I don't always show it.

[Jorge]

I find it hard to understand how anyone who claims to believe the Bible is God's Word, can reconcile this weird cult-like approach to "coded messages" in scripture with the character of God as presented in the Bible.

I really don't believe these formulas to decode the Bible are consistant with the manner by which God reveals Himself to man.
I think it's wrong.

[george wythe]

The shyster in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" could not answer simple questions either.

Asking the predictors of the past to predict just a simple future event is too much for them.

They always use the psychic psychobable that Mark Twain exposed so well in the above-referenced book.

[Frapster]

Tell you what - using the Bible Code please identify a major event. I won't ask you to specify the specific day - just month and year. Name the location and as much detail about the event you can identify and then post it. We'll all wait for that day. Surely, with all the Bible Code fanatics out there, there's something significant going to happen in the next few years? Oh - and using the start of the Gulf War is cheating as I can guess the month it's going to start. However, if you were to come up with some interesting and specific detail about the Gulf War that is fairly quantifiable/verifiable then I'm all ears. Doing anything after the fact is just a joke.

[Quix]

Seems like I was taught that somewhere along the way. Perhaps by the scholar teaching us Daniel and Psalms in the Hebrew.

That was a very long time ago.

[Quix]

I find 0.0000% wierd or cult-like about the Bible Codes.

Some people's hostility to the phenomena is clearly cultlike and wierd. But that's another topic.

My God is pretty Big. I don't try and keep Him in ANY kind of tidy little box.

He could have pulled off THE BIBLE CODE thing in the midst of an idle yawn without working up a sweat just for absolute fun.

They Glorify God.
They Glorify The Son.
They are consistent with the Surface text.

Given that--how can anyone (GIVEN THE SURFACE TEXT ON SUCH MATTERS) construe such as unBiblical or less than good!???

Crazy.

[Quix]

God seems to have a habit of keeping dates very close to His Chest.

I believe that will change the closer we get to the end dates.

I'm skeptical the Bible Codes will ever be used in that specific a way in terms of dates. It doesn't even seem to be close to God's intent with the Codes. And I'm not about to try and pretend I have sufficient perspective, position, power or audacity to tell Almighty God how wrong He was in how He designed the Codes. Sounds like more of a job for a fool.

[Jorge]

I'm glad I'm my Beloved's and He is mine and that He knows my downsittings and my uprisings. I'm thankful for our 2 hours together in dialogue beginning each of my days. I'm thankful for even the brokenness that's taught me more of His priorities and character. I'm thankful for The Word He's burned into every cell and fiber of my being. I'm thankful for the opportunities to Love the Chinese people--especially students--in His Name, Love and caring. I'm even thankful He's teaching me more patience with arrogant idiots even if I don't always show it.

With all due respect the spirit of that last sentence seems to discredit all the previous claims in your paragraph.

[Just mythoughts]

Since learning that words and letters were lock into place to preserve the Sacred Text, give me direction to learn what and where those words and letters are to be.

Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

v19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deut.4 :2 You shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deut. 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of GOD is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him.
v6 Add thou not unto His words, Lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
v9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Considering how many times we were warned to stay in the word this keeps my mind there.

[Quix]

Thought it might.

Being human as I am. I didn't resist.

I'm curious, where in your posts have you demonstrated markedly better?

[Quix]

As I've said here before, I used to treat the Bible as a teddy bear in High School and even College--in addition to consuming it tons regularly, daily.

What persistently mystifies me is how people can possibly construe the Codes as anything other than part and parcel of THE WORD!

Mind boggling.

[SWake]

I find it hard to understand how anyone who claims to believe the Bible is God's Word, can reconcile this weird cult-like approach to "coded messages" in scripture with the character of God as presented in the Bible.

II Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.