Bible Code, Truth or fiction? (Vanity)

3-4-03 | Wingy

[Wingy]

First, I've been registered here for 4 or 5 years. I've made one post, but I reply a fair amount. This is my first vanity. Probably my last.

Several years ago there was a bestselling book titled, "The Bible Code". It was the story of an Israeli math genius that uncovered a "code" imbedded in the first five books of the Bible, also known as the Torah. Using this code, one could find references to contemporaneous events with remarkable accuracy. I read the book when it came out and was impressed, but never saw anything about it in the media.

I'm not a Bible scholar and I was hoping to see some discussion, pro and con, to see if those that knew more than I could help me sort this into the wheat or chaff.

Now there is a sequel, "The Bible Code II" that begins on the morning of 9-11-01. From reading the first page on Amazon.com, it seems to be explosive.

I ordered the book, but now I want to use this brain trust to find if this has been debunked, or is there anything to it?

[Quix]

You seem determined to put words in my fingers.

Code predictions are certainly not so specific as with dates etc.

I don't recall what I wrote specifically. Whether it was Codes or prophetic messages, the specificity was more on the order of "towers" or "two towers" with no real clue about timing.

Enough specificity to go after the fact--OH, THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT. But like the terrorist threat levels--nothing specific about time and place and specific terrorist action.

Enough specificity to go--ahhhhh, God was giving us a big hint--and we went merrily on our way ignoring the hint.

[Quix]

The Code scholars are loathe to consider them predictive for a list of reasons.

One, they assert that it is very difficult to search for something you have no concept of before the fact.

Two, statistical probabilities become nightmarish to nonsensical very easily in such conjectures.

HOWEVER, God doesn't seem to be paying attention to their nervousness about such. Some of the codes already discovered about Saddammmmnn; Iraq; the two snipers and Al Qaeda look like they have already been quite predictive and might even have been helpful to the authorities had they paid attention. Some look like they may be fulfilled any day. These Codes are mentioned in the recent postings from the MARCH BIBLE CODES DIGEST as well as other recent docs from that site.

Personally, I believe God is going to use the Codes in a predictive way. But, I think He'll do it like He seems to be doing in the prophetic field in general--slowly winding up the specificity and timing accuracy sorts of aspects.

[Quix]

There is absolutely NOTHING

NOTHING,

NOTHING

CLOSE TO FORTUNE TELLING, DIVINATION ETC.

About the Bible Codes.

Either you need to reread your dictionary or get a new one.

Or you need to study what you are criticizing about 300% more than you seem to have studied it.

[Quix]

No, I personally do not believe the Codes work ONLY

in retrospect.

But I do believe that predictive aspect doesn't seem to be God's CURRENT emphasis regarding the Codes.

There are many cryptic prophecies in The Bible's surface text that seem to operate similarly to the Codes--affirmations that God knew beforehand without spelling things out in the detail we might prefer or be able to make clear use of ahead of time. He seems to have His own reasons for such.

But there were predictions about the snipers that could have been useful to investigators had they known of them--predictions that proved true within weeks of their posting on the site.

There are predictions about Saddamn and the whole Iraq situation that have already proven true and several more that seem quite set, cocked to prove true any day or week now.

But God is in charge of that. HE IS DOING IT HIS WAY--NOT NECESSARILY HOW WE THINK HE OUGHT TO. HE IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO FIT OUR TIDY LITTLE BOXES. HIS WAYS ARE STILL HIGHER THAN OUR WAYS REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE THINK.

[185JHP]

Excellent. Thanks. It's wonderful to have the indwelling Spirit to protect us from the "angel of light" manifestations of the adversary. BTW I was in the Psalms today and there's a verse in 75 or so that says the Lord sent "evil angels", in anger, to some people. Could have been invisible demons, or cou;d have been "human appearing" bodily presences. IMO there are "people" that aren't really people walking around and spreading fear and loathing. FReegards

[Quix]

GWARSH.

SHOCK.

THANKS FOR YOUR KIND WORD.

Yes, I can imagine what you describe quite easily.

God's best to you and yours.

[SWake]

I'm kinda surprised to find this thread is still alive.

At every point The Codes affirm the basic doctrines of the faith.

If I could find a single instance in the code where it contradicts a standard, mainstream doctrine, would you accept it? I've already shown where your name is contained in the same grid as that which "predicts" the Twin Towers attack and you weren't impressed enough to turn yourself in. What level of proof do you require?

[Quix]

Your charity must correlate highly with your intellectual acuity and honesty.

[Quix]

BTW,

You haven't given a HINT of beginning to respond to the points I posted in the MARCH BIBLE CODES DIGEST.

So much for fairness in general, not to mention fair-mindedness.

[Quix]

Given the Codes infancy,

there's been a lot of hogwash let loose by the ignorant, the well meaning, the vain glorious; the manipulative etc.

Drosnin's books are replete with "Codes" that don't begin to qualify as valid Codes--especially to the most recent criteria.

Straw dogs are easy to burn.

[Quix]

I think this Scripture is a much better and much more applicable one!!!

This is THE SCRIPTURAL CRITERIA for judging whether something is of God or not.

And by this standard, The Codes pass with flying colors:

1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

Of course, I get the feeling you're not REALLY interested in applying Scriptural standards in a rational Biblical way. You SEEM only interested in pontificating about your RELIGIOUS BIASES and addictions.

[Quix]

Shock!

A kind word braving the furnaces of insolance!

Thanks!

[Quix]

Oh, The Bible talks about God hiding things in riddles and cryptic comments. Jesus talked about such.

And plenty of the Old Testament prophecies seem very cryptic, indeed.

--until after the fulfillment--much as occurs with many of the Codes.

Interestingly, Jesus indicated the RELIGIOUS PHARISEE TYPES would not be able to discern the hidden meanings.

Perhaps this thread is proof enough of that.

[Quix]

Can you POSSIBLY

WRAP YOUR MIND

around the idea that

something can be predictive--validly, productively, constructively predictive--

WITHOUT:

A) INCLUDING A DATE OR EVEN A SEASON OR YEAR.

B) FITTING YOUR PERSONAL, NARROW CRITERIA FOR WHAT QUALIFIES AS A PREDICTION????

God just MIGHT have HIS OWN CRITERIA and feel quite comfortable in applying it WITHOUT consulting YOU!

He seems to be of the opinion that HIS FOOLISHNESS is wiser than YOUR GREATEST WISDOM.

I often think the Codes are partly HIS FUN in illustrating such.

[Quix]

Such a world renowned Bible Scholar as yourself

MUST KNOW

of Daniel being told of The Lord that some of the truths revealed to Daniel were to be sealed up/hidden--evidently in The Book Until the time of the end.

Of course, if you aren't aware of such--you could consider reading Daniel. Anyone pretending to speak meaningfully about prophecy or The Scriptures really should read Daniel.

I don't know that we can know for certain AT THIS EARLY STAGE, that the Codes are the fulfillment of that.

BUT THEY ARE BY FAR THE MOST LIKELY CANDIDATE FOR FULFILLMENT OF THAT SCRIPTURE.

You'd look long and hard and fruitlessly to find a better candidate.

But I doubt you'd look at all. You seem most intent on keeping your blinders on and pretending your biases are the sum total of valid RELIGIOUS knowledge.

[Quix]

Very clear they aren't referring to the Bible?

Again, your assumptions of lofty Godlike perspective to know it all

are astounding.

[AmericaUnited]

There is absolutely NOTHING NOTHING, NOTHING CLOSE TO FORTUNE TELLING, DIVINATION ETC. About the Bible Codes. Either you need to reread your dictionary or get a new one.

Oh really? The definition is below. You seem too overly emotionally distraught over this subject to think clearly.

\Div`i*na"tion\, n. [L. divinatio, fr. divinare, divinatum, to foresee, foretell, fr. divinus: cf. F. divination. See Divine.] 1. The act of divining; a foreseeing or foretelling of future events; the pretended art discovering secret or future by preternatural means.

"There shall not be found among you any one that . . . useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter. --Deut. xviii. 10."

Now Quix, care to try to explain to everyone how that definition has "absolutely NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING CLOSE" to the subject?

[Jorge]

I think I'd need a decoder to figure out his profile.

I do know he hasn't shown much strength in answering a few simple questions.

I agree. This debate has become an exercise in futility.

[Jorge]

Oh really? The definition is below. You seem too overly emotionally distraught over this subject to think clearly.

\Div`i*na"tion\, n. [L. divinatio, fr. divinare, divinatum, to foresee, foretell, fr. divinus: cf. F. divination. See Divine.] 1. The act of divining; a foreseeing or foretelling of future events; the pretended art discovering secret or future by preternatural means.

"There shall not be found among you any one that . . . useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter. --Deut. xviii. 10."

Now Quix, care to try to explain to everyone how that definition has "absolutely NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING CLOSE" to the subject?

Excellent scripture for this thread. Some people are too busy trying to devine Bible Codes to actually read what the Lord actually says in the Bible. It's truly sad.

[AmericaUnited]

First let me say there's something seriously wrong here when half of you posts are filled with petty name calling, insults, accusations, etc, etc. What's up with that??!!

Such a world renowned Bible Scholar as yourself MUST KNOW of Daniel being told of The Lord that some of the truths revealed to Daniel were to be sealed up/hidden--evidently in The Book Until the time of the end.

Yes, this means the prophecy would not be understand till the end times. Now when we read Daniel 7, it's easy for us to understand in these end times, the different kingdoms that arose.

Of course, if you aren't aware of such--you could consider reading Daniel. Anyone pretending to speak meaningfully about prophecy or The Scriptures really should read Daniel. I don't know that we can know for certain AT THIS EARLY STAGE, that the Codes are the fulfillment of that. BUT THEY ARE BY FAR THE MOST LIKELY CANDIDATE FOR FULFILLMENT OF THAT SCRIPTURE. You'd look long and hard and fruitlessly to find a better candidate.

That's laughable! No, I don't have to look very hard at all. All I need to do is read the "entire" verse Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Now that seems so very clear, at least to me. The books that were opened contained the works of those who were being judged. If the books were books of the Bible, as you claim, how could God use them to judge people by using secret/hidden codes? That is so nonsensical! People will be judged by what is clearly written in the scripture, not some "secret/kabala" stuff. Now, I want a clear and consise answer from you on this point. Explain to me why God is going to judge people from secret codes in the Bible.

But I doubt you'd look at all. You seem most intent on keeping your blinders on and pretending your biases are the sum total of valid RELIGIOUS knowledge.

Oh boy, another petty insult...