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To: ksen; RnMomof7; Corin Stormhands
In the words of Berkouwer, “That is the terrible seriousness of history, that God works in it, and that man is responsible for it.” [5]

"Hmm, sounds like someone wants to have his cake and eat it too."

This is precisely what the DeJong is arguing.

Isn't that what the Scriptures declare in Acts 2:23?

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

It was God's will that Christ be sacrificed on the cross. God determined this to be. Furthermore, the very same passage testifies that this murder of Christ was done by "wicked hands".

Both God "working it" and man "responsible for it".

In Genesis 50:20 we see the same thought when Joseph reassures his brothers about God's plan:

20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God ~MEANT IT~ unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Again, we see God "works" the events of Joseph's life, but the brother's were responsible for the evil which they committed against Joseph.

It is quite clear!

But, it seems that your objection is philisophical in nature.

In fact, your objection falls in line precisely as DeJong argues:

In this connection we do well to remember that as Christians we refuse to be forced into a choice between determinism or indeterminism. This choice is forced only upon philosophers who in their speculation have failed to reckon with the unique relation, which the created order sustains to the Creator.

I'm curious as to whether you hold this "have your cake and eat it, too" standard with other Scriptural truths such as Creation ex nihilo (creation out of NOTHING), the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection?

Do you deny that God can "have his cake and eat it too"?

1 Kings 17
14 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.
15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.
16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah.

Note, for the record, that the Widow of Zarephath did indeed "have her oil and flower and ate it too"!

Jean

37 posted on 02/17/2003 5:00:56 AM PST by Jean Chauvin (“Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; yea even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Prov 16:4))
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To: Jean Chauvin; Corin Stormhands; RnMomof7
So then God determined that Man was to sin and Man is responsible for it?
38 posted on 02/17/2003 5:43:46 AM PST by ksen (HHD)
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To: Jean Chauvin
Excellent post Jean..and to the point..what we know is that God has allowed man choices within His moral will...but we also know that our decisions are with in His sovereign will...
40 posted on 02/17/2003 9:45:30 AM PST by RnMomof7
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