Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ponyespresso; xzins
The Scriptures are CLEAR that Jesus Christ's work was pre-determined by the will of God and the hands that carried out the murder of the Christ were "wicked". Actually, if possible, I would like to keep the discussion strickly within the framework and events of the Book of Numbers.

That would prevent the Calvinists from appealing to their little set of proof-texts.

Being 'cultic' in nature, they are unable to do so.

What I am asking is, when that specific generation of Israelites left Egypt, as they were leaving, did God know about their failure to trust in Him and listen to the spies negative report about Canaan? (Num. 13, 14) Also, in a similar situation, did God know when He chose Moses to lead His people out of Egypt, did God know that Moses would strike the rock twice, thus preventing Moses to enter the land of Canaan? (Num. 20:1-13)

Yes, God 'foreknew' both, but God did not cause both!

The issue is Omniscience which knows all the possible as well as the actual.

What that generation was going to do was always foreknown by God, but they did not have to choose as they did. Had they chosen correctly God would have had another plan for them.

197 posted on 02/12/2003 2:24:24 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies ]


To: lockeliberty; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Matchett-PI; Seven_0; fortheDeclaration; xzins; RnMomof7
Yes, God 'foreknew' both, but God did not cause both! The issue is Omniscience which knows all the possible as well as the actual. What that generation was going to do was always foreknown by God, but they did not have to choose as they did. Had they chosen correctly God would have had another plan for them.

I mean, lets be honest, the LORD never said which generation of the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would enter Canaan. I don't think, though I might be wrong, that the LORD ever promised Moses that he would actually enter Canaan, either. So, really, in this situation God's promise would have been kept if that generation did enter the promised land, just as it was kept as the next generation entered the promised land, right?

What the LORD does say to that generation that left Egypt, however, is that "none of the people who have seen my glory and the signs that I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have tested me these ten times and have not obeyed my voice, shall see the land that I swore to give to their ancestors; none of those who despised me shall see it. Num. 14:22,23

The reason that that generation is not entering Canaan is not because God had it in for them at the outset, that God foreordained them to grumble in the wilderness, but simply that they did not obey the voice of the LORD, correct?

I guess the concept of the punishment of the LORD is also something we might discuss; i.e. why does the LORD choose the method of punishment that He does? Why, when both Miriam and Aaron speak against Moses, why was only Miriam made leprous and Aaron was not (Num 12:1-16)? And, why does the LORD only give leprosy to those who speak against His chosen instrument (Moses), while a man who simply gathers sticks on the Sabbath the LORD commands to stone to death (Num. 15:32-36)?

And, ultimately, if the LORD really wanted to see that generation in Canaan, could He or could He not have come up with a punishment that would have both quelled His wrath and also allowed that generation entry into the promised land? So, maybe, God did have it in for them at the outset after all.

211 posted on 02/13/2003 3:55:40 PM PST by ponyespresso (I know that my Redeemer lives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson