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To: Maximilian
John List, who murdered his entire family, was a very religious man and murdered them because he felt it was the only way to stop them from straying from God and the Bible.

Does that mean the Bible is wrong? No, it means some people are just plain CRAZY.

Just because a few people, who happen to play RPGs, go insane and kill people doesn't prove that RPGs are bad. Since millions of people in the US play RPGs why aren't there more murders linked to suicides?

Also, you appear to not know the following about Ferrell.
From http://www.unusualkentucky.com/kyvampire.html

"Ferrell's mother, Sondra Gibson, was recently charged with trying to coerce a 14-year-old boy into having sex with her and helping her become part of the vampire clan. "

Ferrell came from a very messed up family and a broken home which makes me wonder why so many are so quick to blame RPGs when so much else was wrong is his life.


http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/list/1.html
"'Breeze Knoll' was a nineteen room, three-story Victorian mansion, and the most expensive house in an upper middle class neighborhood in Westfield, New Jersey. It even had a massive ballroom. John List, 46, lived there with his wife, Helen, 45; his daughter, Patricia, 16; and his two sons, John Jr., 15, and Frederick, 13. His 85 year-old mother, Alma, lived in an apartment in the attic. List was a religious man with an extreme need to keep things under control. He kept everything in its place, barely ever smiled, and even mowed his lawn in a suit and tie. In October of 1971, he applied for a firearms registration, for “home protection.” However, he had something altogether different in mind.

Two months before, Pat, his daughter, had been picked up by the police for walking the streets after midnight and smoking. To John List, she was trouble and he was certain she was going straight to hell. That his wife, who no longer went to church, protected her from his anger was a sure indication that things were getting out of hand. In November of 1971 he made the decision to change everything, but it was not until December 7th that anyone realized what he had done.

For the past month a neighbor next to the mansion on 431 Hillside Avenue had noticed all the lights on in the house and thought it was odd. She knew the List family had been away on vacation, but now the lights were apparently burning out. The house had an abandoned appearance, although she spotted a strange car in the driveway on several occasions. She finally decided to notify the police.
Patricia List at 16 years (victim)

Around the same time, Patty’s drama coach, Ed Illiano, had his own concerns, so he decided to check them out. Patty was supposed to be at a rehearsal for an upcoming play and had not even sent him a note to say when she was returning from North Carolina. At one point, not long before she left, she had even told him that her father was going to kill her. He went to the house several times, and finally decided to get the police involved, but they were already on their way. (One account says that he went in, stumbled upon a gruesome scene, and kept it to himself for two days.)

Finding a window unlatched, the officers entered the house. There was no heat so the temperature inside was almost as cold as outside. Clearly no one was there, although they heard music playing loudly over an intercom system. It sounded like something from church. The place seemed barren of furniture, as if the family had moved.

The officers made their way through the empty dining room and into the pantry, where they noticed dark stains on the walls. In the kitchen, the checkerboard floor was stained with dark streaks. So was the hallway beyond, and they noticed that a terrible smell was getting stronger from down that direction. They knew that something terrible had happened. It appeared as if someone had tried unsuccessfully to clean up blood. They followed the stains down the hallway toward the ballroom. In one area near the fireplace, there appeared to be mounds of clothing stacked up, and the odor in there was heavy. Whentheir eyes adjusted to the dark, they looked at four corpses placed side by side on Boy Scout sleeping bags. There were rags over their faces. Trails of blood up to where they lay indicated that they had been dragged there from other rooms. The drama coach immediately identified them as Helen List and her three children.
The sleeping bags
(police evidence)

The three children lay side by side, and Helen was placed at a T angle beyond their heads. Clearly they had been there for some time.

The officers checked the rest of the house while the eerie organ music continued to play, and soon found John List's mother, Alma, murdered in the attic. She had been closed into a storage hall off the kitchen, and a dishtowel was placed on her face. Her body had been oddly positioned on her back, knees spread and her calves under her, as if she had fallen to her knees and then gone over backwards. They lifted the towel and saw an expression of horror on her face. She had been shot above the left eye.
Helen List, mid 1960's (victim)

More police arrived and lights were brought in to reveal the killer’s MO. Helen had been shot in the left side of the head in the kitchen and dragged by the feet down the hall to the ballroom. Her arms were heavily streaked with blood. The killer had left her with her nightgown ridden up, exposing her thighs. Her stomach was badly distended.

Patty lay on her left side. She was wearing a coat, as if she had just come in. She too had been shot in the head and then dragged to where she lay. Fred was on his stomach, also wearing a jacket. There was a pool of blood under his head. Brother and sister appeared to be merely asleep.
John Jr. and Fred List (victims)

John Jr. was another matter. His winter jacket was unzipped, showing that he had been shot repeatedly, in the chest and face, an attack more savage than the others had suffered.

The house was searched to determine the killing pattern. Walls and floors were streaked with blood and efforts had been made to clean up. Blood-soaked towels and newspapers, now hardened, were found in paper bags in the ballroom and kitchen. It looked as if the killer had expected to take them out with the rest of the trash. Bullet holes in several walls indicated that many shots were fired.

It was Westfield’s first murder in eight years, and it was a slaughter. "
167 posted on 02/04/2003 8:03:17 AM PST by Karsus (TrueFacts=GOOD, GoodFacts=BAD))
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To: Karsus
Apparently you missed the entire point of the story. You demanded evidence that role-playing games led to occult participation. This story was a good demonstration of exactly that.

The murder was significant only because that is what brought the story to the attention of the national media. Murders are committed every day for a variety of motives. But in this particular case, the boy's experience with role-playing games led to his participation in genuine occult activities which eventually led to murder.

173 posted on 02/04/2003 9:40:02 AM PST by Maximilian
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