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Vatican: Harry Potter's OK with us
Reuters via CNN ^

Posted on 02/03/2003 10:35:11 AM PST by cantfindagoodscreenname

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:02:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- Harry Potter fans, relax. The Vatican says the kid is all right.

The question of whether J.K. Rowling's books and the films on the boy wizard have a positive influence came up at a news conference Monday where the Vatican presented a document on "New Age" spirituality, which contain elements of the occult.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
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To: OHelix
What God says trumps what I believe

Then post what God says about obelisks, right here.

61 posted on 02/03/2003 1:15:27 PM PST by Campion
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To: OHelix
"Let God be true and every man a liar."

Looks like we've found a couple on this thread.

62 posted on 02/03/2003 1:17:51 PM PST by Titanites
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To: Campion
Do you wear a wedding ring? Does your minister?

Good point. There is another that is sure as heck not unique to RCC or EO. I've even heard preachers tell how it's a symbol of God's eternity. But that, to those who know, is BS. It is a pagan symbol that has been adopted by Christians.

I've actually wondered about the wedding ring before, and did some research into it. To answer your question: I do not, my minister does.

63 posted on 02/03/2003 1:20:51 PM PST by OHelix
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To: OHelix
It is a pagan symbol that has been adopted by Christians ... my minister does.

Then your religion is "contaminated," too.

But I have a simpler explanation. Answer some easy Bible questions for me. Open your Bible, and tell me what happened under the Mosaic Law when an observant Jew touched a leper, a menstruating woman, or a dead body.

Then open the Gospel of Matthew and tell me what happened when Jesus touched each of those things.

Then reflect on what happens when his Church -- the Body of Christ, remember -- appropriates things that God created (he called them "good," remember?) and pagans hijacked, and restores them to the worship of the True God. What gets contaminated, and what gets healed?

64 posted on 02/03/2003 1:28:10 PM PST by Campion
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: Angelus Errare
No, I am not a SDA or any offshoot, thereof. I grew up in Baptist churches. But most of my life I attended a very conservative Presbyterion church. I just realized as a young man, that much of what I was taught that the Bible said, when I read it myself, did not seem to say what I had been told. I found those who I respected to be willing to distort the scripture in order to make it justify their tradition. I see it everywhere, not just RCC, EO... Everywhere. And from many who I know truly desire to obey the word, but they still will try to conform the scripture to their beliefs, rather than their beliefs to scripture. I've recognised it in myself. And I've read it prophesied in scripture.

As per the ROME issue, here's the post I pasted it from:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/831773/posts

I avoided that topic then, and I don't really want to get into it now. I only brought it up to answer the question as to why RCC gets more abuse in this regard than other EO churches. I think that that doctrine is why.
66 posted on 02/03/2003 1:31:47 PM PST by OHelix
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Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: Loyalist
My son enjoyed the Harry Potter stories. I saw nothing wrong in the books, standard good vs evil.

To be honest though, the Chronicles of Narnia are 100 times better and my 10 year old was enthralled by the books.

We just finished the last book last night and are going to start from book one again.
68 posted on 02/03/2003 1:35:43 PM PST by katnip
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To: OHelix
Bookmarked till I get more time to read it.

The Sabbath thing was why I thought you might be Adventist.
69 posted on 02/03/2003 1:36:04 PM PST by Angelus Errare
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To: Campion
Re oblisk and pagan statues: excellent response!
70 posted on 02/03/2003 1:36:51 PM PST by max epr
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To: Angelus Errare
I think Harry Potter is about as bad as Bewitched was when I was a kid. I loved Bewitched, and my kids love Harry Potter.

Bewitched never influenced me to follow the occult, and I don't think Harry Potter will influence my kids to follow the occult.

I do think that our family going to church on Sundays, and reading our Bible together will influence my children to be Christions.
71 posted on 02/03/2003 1:40:03 PM PST by luckystarmom
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To: OHelix
I found those who I respected to be willing to distort the scripture in order to make it justify their tradition. I see it everywhere, not just RCC, EO... Everywhere. And from many who I know truly desire to obey the word, but they still will try to conform the scripture to their beliefs, rather than their beliefs to scripture. I've recognised it in myself.

So, aren't you saying that "the Bible Alone" always ends up being "the Bible plus someone's tradition"? If that's the case, then don't you have to choose between two possibilities ... either Christianity itself is a fraud, or the real question you should ask is not, "who do I think is following the Bible" but "who has preserved the authentic Christian tradition from Apostolic times"?

72 posted on 02/03/2003 1:41:10 PM PST by Campion
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To: Angelus Errare; OHelix
The Vatican was historically never part of the city of Rome - it is across the Tiber river from the city. It was incorporated into the city of Rome in 1584 by Pope Sixtus V.

The seven hills are: Palatine, Capitoline, Esquiline, Aventine, Viminal, Quirinal, and Celian.

The Vatican is not a hill at all - in Roman times it was known as the Campus Vaticanus, which means the Vatican plain - a marshy uninhabited area in Biblical times.

The slight elevation of the Vatican is due to the earthworks which went into fortifying it and reclaiming it from the marshland as Romans moved to the suburbs during the Empire.

The Papacy has only officially resided at the Vatican for 400 years. It has had an itinerant history. From the 400s to the 1400s the Popes resided at the Lateran, which was also located outside Rome proper - sometimes relocating to Milan and even Orvieto, hundreds of miles from Rome. Then the Popes lived at Avignon in France for almost a century.

The Popes then returned to the Lateran and only took up residence at the Vatican after the restoration of St. Peter's.

73 posted on 02/03/2003 1:43:43 PM PST by wideawake
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To: Campion
Then your religion is "contaminated," too.

I believe it is. I have heard sermons to the same effect as the post you are making. One pointed to King David's use of Goliath's sword as an example of "God taking what is Satan's and using it for good". The purpose of that sermon was mainly to justify using Contemporary styles of music in worship. Not a huge issue to me, personally, but the premis can be misleading.

I would assume you would agree with me that it would not be appropriate to take a pagan temple, remove the inscription, and carve a new one that said that the image is Jesus... then continue offering whatever sacrifices were offered to the Idol, and practicing whatever rituals were performed, only now, instead of being done in the name of the pagan god, they are done in the name of Jesus.

If there were a church who were so blatantly idolatrous, how would you answer them if they used the same argument?

74 posted on 02/03/2003 1:48:32 PM PST by OHelix
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To: T Minus Four
I have read every one the second I could tear it away from my 10-year-old, who by the way is in Catholic school, where this has been a NON-ISSUE!!

Harry Potter has been a very big issue in many Catholic schools, including my own children's. I have seen good arguments on both sides. But it is naive to pretend that it has not been an issue.

It's no more teaching our kids satan-worship than other fanciful tales such as the Wizard of Oz or the C.S. Lewis books.

As a Catholic, you should seriously examine the content of the Wizard of OZ and the Narnia stories. I'm not saying that they are evil, but I would think that every caring parent will want to examine the contents for themselves. L. Frank Baum's story is weird and each book gets weirder. There's a good chance that they are harmless, but I wouldn't just assume so.

75 posted on 02/03/2003 1:54:03 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: OHelix
I would assume you would agree with me that it would not be appropriate to take a pagan temple, remove the inscription, and carve a new one that said that the image is Jesus... then continue offering whatever sacrifices were offered to the Idol, and practicing whatever rituals were performed, only now, instead of being done in the name of the pagan god, they are done in the name of Jesus.

Catholics don't do anything remotely like that, ridiculous claims in Jack Chick tracts notwithstanding.

However ... there's a book you ought to read, called "Daily Life in Ancient Israel," by Fr. Roland deVaux, O.P. Don't let the fact that deVaux is a Dominican priest throw you. The book is considered to be one of the classic archaeological and anthropological texts on its topic.

One of the things that may surprise you is just how externally similar ancient Israelite religion -- as specified in Exodus and Leviticus, not as later corrupted -- was to Canaanite paganism.

Maybe God doesn't approach this thing the way you do.

76 posted on 02/03/2003 1:55:32 PM PST by Campion
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To: T Minus Four
Good grief, read the books. I have read every one the second I could tear it away from my 10-year-old, who by the way is in Catholic school, where this has been a NON-ISSUE!!

It's no more teaching our kids satan-worship than other fanciful tales such as the Wizard of Oz or the C.S. Lewis books.

Please read at least one book before you post an opinion!

Well, this thread was predictable. But it at least attracted the most versed Catholics (myself not included) to defend against the entirely predictable posts on this thread. Having said that:

The HP books are dangerous only in that they could possibly teach young children that escapism is the way to deal with life's problems. But that's the problem with all fantasy books from Mallory's L'Morte D'Arthur to Tolkien. In my youth I was partial to the Elric of Melnibone works of the greatly under-rated Michael Moorecock. HP books should be treated as good fantasy works--if your kids get too into them, then you worry.

77 posted on 02/03/2003 1:59:20 PM PST by HumanaeVitae (If the Constitution is a "Living Document", does anyone have his phone number? Address? Anyone?)
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To: Maximilian
There's a good chance that they are harmless, but I wouldn't just assume so.

I don't assume so. That's why I have read them all before forming opinions.

78 posted on 02/03/2003 2:01:32 PM PST by T Minus Four
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
If you saw the live action movie, all your negative thoughts on Scrappy Doo were confirmed.

Now that was a baaaaaad movie if I ever saw any...

79 posted on 02/03/2003 2:07:04 PM PST by Elenya ( And So It Begins...)
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To: Maximilian
L. Frank Baum's story is weird and each book gets weirder

This should answer your question about what the Wizard of Oz is about.

80 posted on 02/03/2003 2:07:27 PM PST by HumanaeVitae (If the Constitution is a "Living Document", does anyone have his phone number? Address? Anyone?)
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