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Just in case you might be tempted to challenge the authors of my first group of quotes, I found an AP news release which basically says the same thing:

27 June 2000

VATICAN CITY (AP) - He sat between two clerics, quoted the pope and helped plug a book recounting a cardinal's battle against church repression in the Soviet bloc.

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev's poll ratings are sagging at home, but he has become a popular figure at the Vatican after forging a friendship with Pope John Paul II.

Gorbachev sat on a dais Tuesday along with two cardinals, the Italian foreign minister and the president of the European Union's commission to promote the book "The Martyrdom of Patience," the memoirs of Cardinal Agostino Casaroli.

Casaroli, who died in 1998, was considered an architect of the Vatican policy that helped the church survive in Eastern Europe during the Cold War.

Gorbachev called Casaroli "a great personality," recalling their meeting in Moscow to help prepare Gorbachev's historic visit to the Vatican in 1989, the first by a leader of the Soviet Communist party. Gorbachev has met with the pope at least a half dozen times since.

Why do you suppose I would be challenging your quotemakers? I know David Wagner personally and knew him before he converted and I would be flabbergasted if he were other that a very strong supporter of JP II. I do not know who Ms. Ferreira may be but she does seem a bit hysterical. I don't find much significance in the fact that Gorby has visited the Vatican six times in ten years.

If the suggestion is that the pope is a secret ally of Gorbachev in seeking to establish at least a neo-Soviet Europe under a wine-stain dictatorship and thereby facilitate the elimination of 90% of Europe's population, it is not those authors who are the problem but, yeah, I would tend to disagree. Do you find that you are having too much time on your hands? Just asking?

Even if I don't always agree with you, you are certainly a much more pleasant fellow than most with whom I might disagree. Your posts here are a tad eccentric.

I would be so very interested in knowing who the two cardinals sitting on either side of Gorbachev happened to be. I think it might be quite telling.

There was an interesting thread in the religious section posted by Francisco,on the 17th,entitled "Corpses in the Vatican". It was over wordy and patched and parsed and repetitious.However,the point was,there still remained questions about the murder/suicide of the Swiss Guards that occurred in the late 90's. I was hoping it would lead to a good discussion that would shed more light on this present scandal,which I look at as an oppurtunity for bringing forth that springtime of Christianity that the Pope has been predicting. Of course the thread deteriorated into the usual p*ssing contest.

The one statement that I thought needed thought and light was about two groups,within the Curia poised against another,but I wasn't sure who was what. I was unsuccessful in drawing anyone in but Robbys,who did well,but still no discussion on that little piece of "truth".

I hope you all will go back to that thread and see if what I said makes any sense.

BTW That night I heard a replay of an interview that Art Bell had with Malachai Martin in 1997,(I know,and I'm blushing}.The remarkable thing about it was that Martin mentioned the "pedophilia" in the Church in Boston. He went on to say that it was probably brought over with the folks on the Mayflower,or in some way indicated it did not have its roots in the Catholic Church. Very interesting,I've been grousing about the roots for a while.

I asked Ultima Ratio to listen,he was on line,I thought,because I wanted someone to hear him but I guess Ultima thinks I am such a Knee Jerk Papal Loyalist that I was trying to lead him into a trap or something. Anyway I felt bad and wish somebody had listened. Hope somebody will take a look,I feel so sorry for the Pope beset by so many enemies. I think he may have gotten blindsided by thinking that an enemy of his enemy was his friend. (Or, more likely a "group of enemies" blah,blah)

We who love the Church and know it contains all truth need to learn how to work together better,there is no good reason that so much devolves,after we save the Church then we can argue but things are far too critical in the U.S. as well as the world to spend time on things that are out of our hands right now. What is in our hands is cleaning up this scandal and the evil bishops,the shmoozer bishops and the abuser priests and making sure it doesn't happen again.