[RobbyS]

Even Luther and the early Reformers took this route. They claimed to read tradition better than Rome. It was a while before they outright rejected tradition as a concept, or rather reduced it to what is contained in Scripture. Calvin made themost logical case for the Reformation, but of course many Protestants rejected him as their master and now he is generally ignored.

[ultima ratio]

You contend Rome is a better judge of Tradition than anyone else. What's traditional about the Novus Ordo Mass? What's traditional about Assisi Prayer meetings or kissing the Koran? What's traditional about giving openly apostate bishops the red hat? What's traditional about the Pope's visiting a synagogue to pray with Jews for a different messiah? Show me where the Church has ever supported such radical breaks with her own past--with no end in sight. You people are amazing. You sound truly desperate, coming up with such lame excuses.

By the way, it was Luther who BROKE with tradition, claiming he was returning to the primitive Church, though he had no way of knowing this apart from the Tradition he was trashing. He began as the modernists begin--by turning the altar around to face the people--a switch which Gamber has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a false assumption about the early Church. Gamber has published photos showing bas-reliefs from the first century which depict altars facing east, away from the people, toward a rising sun. Luther also, by the way, rejected the Mass as a sacrifice, much as the modernists do, insisting the liturgy was nothing more than a memorial meal. So it is post-conciliar Rome that models itself on Luther's vision, rather than on the Tradition it has received from Christ and the apostles.