Do you have access to the deposition? I heard it reported as I mentioned - that the gentleman did not say his accusations were lies, rather, he said his memory had been so damaged by his AIDS that he wasn't able to be certain the charges were true.>>>>>>
That excuse (his memory and AIDS) was just a tactic the lawyers used so he wouldn't be charged with perjury. The bottom line is that there was no trial and no guilt proven, if this man, the card, was a typical molester, there would have been hundreds of people coming forward. There were none. So, he may have been gay, an abortionist and a bad priest, but he was not a victim of zero tolerance and rightfully so because the policy is no good unless one thinks school children should be arrested and taken to police HQ because they play cops and robbers on the school playground. We have a good legal system in the USA, due process, let's keep it that way. It's bad enough we have these idiotic hate crimes laws on the books don't give the liberals more ammunition. Remember, many of the zero-tolerance policies are geared towards conservatives, i.e. guns, I've seen on the FR where kids were suspended for wearing pro-life and anti homosexual (I'm straight) tee shirts, etc. and it will never stop. I'm sticking with due process.
Remember the subject of the thread had to do with a zero tolerance policy. I still say I am against it and used the "card" , my classmate, a priest in my diocese and some school hysteria as examples. Zero tolerance policies are no good since it doesn't give the accused due process. This thread has nothing to do with homosexuals or Abortions only zero tolerance.
As far as the Masons, I've never seen any harm in what they do and when I see article and threads stating that someone was honored by them, it means nothing to me, it only leads me again to more unsubstantiated folklore, rumors,etc. I've heard it all: Satanists (no evidence) idolize false gods (no evidence). I have a black friend of mine who is a devout Christian and a former leader on his Prince Hall Lodge where he explained to me many of the ceremonies w/o divulging the secrets. Let see there is a bible present, God is mentioned, doesn't sound like devil worship to me. Also, my K of C council and the local Freemasons have a combined dinner dance every year with the blessings of Supreme (a letter of approval) and our chaplain. Now I guess your going to say that the supreme council of the K of C is demonic?
Sure, back in the 1700's the masons and a pope, only one pope, didn't get along, so he wrote and encyclical against it.
<> I guess you do have access to the deposition. Any links?
I don't think we have a good legal system.
I am in favor of dealing with homosexual priests, all priests who break laws - Commandments and positive secular law - with policies that don't violate Canon Law. The Bishops are supposed to know Canon Law or have Canonists that do. Their Dallas-dance was a joke. They knew it violated Canon Law.
One is still forbidden to be a Catholic and a member of the Masons. I suggest you do a little research on the history of the Masons and their malign intent re Church and Crown. I would suggest your "supreme" is underinformed. I will ping sitest for a response as he used to be a G.K. in the K of C.
Dear Coleus and Catholicguy,
I saw your ping, CG. Why do you seek to arouse the dead?? ;-)
(I just completed some state regulatory compliance stuff, and though I'm not dead, I half-wish I were.)
* * * * * WARNING * * * * *
This post is from the point of view of Catholic teaching. I don't personally have any significant contact with freemasonry, and thus, nothing that follows is based on my own experiences. Any efforts to engage me on this issue will prove futile. It is the teaching of the Church, I believe and obey. But I'm without first-hand knowledge or experience to engage in any sensible discussion about freemasonry.
Catholic teaching on freemasonry is venerable and consistent. The Church has always condemned membership in masonic lodges, since masonry began sometime during the Enlightenment.
The Church teaches that freemasonry is, of itself, a religion, with all the trappings of beliefs and rituals. The Church further teaches that the basic religion of freemasonry is a kind of natural theology. While there is nothing wrong with natural theology of itself, it is incompatible with Catholic faith for a Catholic to belong to another religion, especially which does not accept things like the divinity of Jesus Christ, etc.
Additionally, many masonic organizations, both here and in Europe, have anti-Catholic histories. Masonic institutions in the West and Midwest played important roles in passing anti-Catholic laws in those parts of the nation. Many masonic institutions have or had anti-Catholic oaths as part of their membership rituals.
This isn't to say that freemasons are evil. That isn't what Church teaching asserts. Thus, cooperating in various civic events with masons is certainly not against the teaching of the Catholic Church. Lots of other religions deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, and various Christian denominations deny one or more truths of the Catholic faith. This doesn't mean that it is somehow wrong to participate in civic life with these other institutions. But it would be inappropriate for a devout Catholic to also belong to the Baptist congregation down the street.
"Let see there is a bible present, God is mentioned,..."
At a masonic facility dominated by Muslims, a Koran would be used. At a masonic facility dominated by Jews, a Torah might be used. Masonry doesn't decree the presence of a Bible, nor does it affirm the particular teachings that are found in the Bible, except insofar as they confirm its own natural theology.
"Sure, back in the 1700's the masons and a pope, only one pope, didn't get along, so he wrote and encyclical against it."
The ban against membership in freemasonry has been consistent from that time to the present day.
I think that this is the relative part in Canon Law:
"Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty - one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict."
Though for reasons relating to editorial style, freemasonry is not mentioned by name in the current Code of Canon Law, the code refers to organizations including freemasonry, and the general penalty for active membership is usually interdict.
Here is an EWTN link to the Vatican document explaining the current code in relation to freemasonry, followed by some commentary:
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm
sitetest