"...Jews do not have to convert in order to be saved,..." Card. Kasper

Catholic News Service ^ | Nov-7-2002 | John Thavis

[narses]

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- In their relations with Jews, Christians cannot conceal the strong missionary dimension of their faith, but also must recognize that Jews do not have to convert in order to be saved, a top Vatican official said.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Vatican's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews, said Nov. 6 that Christians take a different missionary approach toward Jews than toward followers of other non-Christian religions.

That's because Christians and Jews share a long biblical and religious tradition, a belief in the same God and a conviction that God will complete human history, he said.

The main difference between the two faiths -- the salvific role of Jesus Christ -- must also be acknowledged, he said.

"The universality of Christ's redemption for Jews and gentiles is so fundamental throughout the entire New Testament ... that it cannot be ignored or passed over in silence," Cardinal Kasper said.

"This does not mean that Jews in order to be saved have to become Christians; if they follow their own conscience and believe in God's promises as they understand them in their religious tradition, they are in line with God's plan, which for us comes to historical completion in Jesus Christ," he said.

Cardinal Kasper spoke at the Center for Christian-Jewish Learning at Boston College. His text was made available to Catholic News Service by his office at the Vatican.

The cardinal's comments came amid increasing debate in the United States over the church's missionary attitude toward Jews. Last summer, Catholic and Jewish participants in a national dialogue issued a document that repudiated campaigns that target Jews for conversion, prompting criticism by some Christian leaders.

Cardinal Kasper said he wanted to "take the bull by the horns" and discuss the sensitive issue of mission -- in part, he said, because Christian-Jewish dialogue must look honestly at the hardest questions.

He said he recognized that the topic of mission evokes bitter memories among Jews because of forced conversions in the past.

"We sincerely reject and regret this today," he said. He noted that the Catholic Church now condemns all means of coercion in matters of faith.

But mission must be discussed, because it is a key concept for the Christian faith and part of the Christian identity, he said.

"We cannot cancel it, and if we should try to do so, it would not help the Jewish-Christian dialogue at all. Rather, it would make the dialogue dishonest and ultimately distort it," he said.

"If Jews want to speak to Christians, they cannot demand that Christians no longer be Christians," he said.

He said substituting the historically loaded word "mission" with another term like "evangelization" or "witness" may be helpful to Jewish-Christian dialogue, but will not by itself resolve the problem, which touches upon the very identities of both religions.

Cardinal Kasper pointed out that Christians and Jews share the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament; the common figures of Abraham, Moses, patriarchs and prophets; the covenant and promises of a unique God; and a messianic hope.

Because of all that, "mission understood as a call to conversion from idolatry to the living and true God does not apply and cannot be applied to Jews," he said.

That has tangible consequences, including the fact that there is "no Catholic missionary activity toward Jews as there is for all other non-Christian religions," he said.

Both religions open toward the future and the hope of fulfillment that God alone can bring, he said. But while Jews still expect the coming of the Messiah, Christians believe he has come as Jesus and will be revealed at the end of time as the Messiah for Jews and for all nations, he said.

While it may be painful for Jews to listen to such professions of Christian faith, it is inevitable in honest dialogue, the cardinal said.

"Our Jewish friends may say, as they do: 'You look on us with your Christian eyes.' Yes, we do, and how could we do otherwise? Jews, too, look on us with their eyes and out of the perspective of their faith," he said.

"We must endure and withstand this difference, because it constitutes our respective identities," he said.

Cardinal Kasper said that while Christians cannot "remain silent on our hope in Jesus" it is not a question of "targeting" Jews or others for conversion. For modern Christians, evangelization is accomplished primarily by living the faith and "giving testimony of Jesus Christ to all and in all places," he said.

That cannot be renounced by Christians, even though this testimony is undertaken differently in relations with Jews, he said.

Cardinal Kasper said the question of mission will ultimately be resolved in the context of a Christian theology of Judaism. The church is only at the beginning of this process, which began with the Second Vatican Council, he said.

"The long period of anti-Judaistic theology cannot be overcome in only 40 years," he said.

END

[Illbay]

Headline in the near future: "Christians Don't Have To Believe In Christ."

[berned]

We can all simply agree that Kasper is a heretical goat, and does not represent the teachings of Roman Catholicism

"Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Vatican's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews."

JP2 DOES approve of Kasper's heresies. If he didn't, he could force Kasper out, (like Harvey Pitt).

But, tellingly, JP2 ALLOWS KASPER TO STAY and spread this heresy which JP2 tacitly APPROVES OF.

I repeat for brainwashed, in-denial Catholics, JP2 ALLOWS KASPER TO STAY.

This speaks volumes and volumes.

[malakhi]

Gotta run, it is almost the sabbath.

Watching the sun are we?

As a matter of fact, yes. The sabbath begins at sunset, and I do make a point of observing it.

[malakhi]

Why would those edicts make you doubt the saving power of Christ?

Those edicts are not what make me reject the divinity of Jesus. In posting them I was replying to Dajjal, who is apparently a big fan of the Fourth Lateran Council. I thought I would provide an illustration of what he seemed to be supporting.

I reject the claims of the messiahhood and the divinity of Jesus because I read the Hebrew scriptures as a Jew. Jesus did not fulfil the messianic prophecies, and God is a unity, not a trinity. The rest is detail.

[malakhi]

It was King Herod who was concerned about his rule as "King of the Jews."

So saith the gospel accounts. As I have stated previously, I do not unquestionably accept these accounts as objective history.

The Romans had nothing against Jesus, but they gave in to the demands of the Jews to crucify Him.

This is the "spin" (for lack of a better word) that the gospels put on the story. When the gospel of John was written, it behooved the Christians to distance themselves from the Jews and absolve the Romans of responsibility.

My apologies for generalizing.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

[Irisshlass]

Promise to Israel

Hosea 1
10
Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
"You are not My people,"
It will be said to them,
"You are the sons of the living God."

Fulfillment of the church

Romans 16
26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith

Israel

Hosea 2
23
"I will sow her for Myself in the land.
I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion,
And I will say to those who were not My people,
'You are My people!'
And they will say, 'You are my God!'"

Church

1 Peter 2
9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Israel

Amos 9
The Restoration of Israel
11
"In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David,
And wall up its breaches;
I will also raise up its ruins
And rebuild it as in the days of old;

Church

Acts 15
14 Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16
'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17
SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18
SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.

Israel

Joel 2
The Promise of the Spirit
28
It will come about after this
That I will ) pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29
"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.


The Day of the LORD
30
"I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31
"The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
32
"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Church

Acts 2

The Day of Pentecost

1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled (the whole house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Peter's Sermon

14 But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.
15 "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;
16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
17
') AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19
'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20
'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21
'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'


Israel
Exodus 19
6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

Church

1 Peter 2
9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION,
so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has
called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Israel

Ezekiel 37
27 "My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Church

2 Corinthians 6
16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM;
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.


Israel

Leviticus 19
2 "Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy.

Church

1 Peter 1
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16 because it is written, YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY

Israel

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Church

Luke 22
20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

[B-Chan]

Those edicts are not what make me reject the divinity of Jesus. In posting them I was replying to Dajjal, who is apparently a big fan of the Fourth Lateran Council. I thought I would provide an illustration of what he seemed to be supporting.

As a loyal son of the Church, I, too support the Fourth Lateran.

I reject the claims of the messiahhood and the divinity of Jesus because I read the Hebrew scriptures as a Jew. Jesus did not fulfil the messianic prophecies, and God is a unity, not a trinity. The rest is detail.

With all due respect: you are wrong. But instead of arguing with you, I'll just remember you in my prayers. If you seek, you will find; if you look, you will see. May Christ help you to seek and look. "Resplendent and unfading is Wisdom, and she is readily perceived by those who love her, and found by those who seek her." [Wis. 6:12]

[malakhi]

None of which means anything to me, as I do not interpret the passages from the Hebrew scriptures the way you do, and I do not accept your scriptures as canonical.

Believe as you wish. I have no problem with Christians being Christians. I just want missionary efforts to the Jews to cease.

[malakhi]

With all due respect: you are wrong.

No, you are wrong. The difference is, I don't feel compelled to try to convert you to my beliefs.

But instead of arguing with you, I'll just remember you in my prayers.

Prayers are always welcome. I'd just ask that you pray for God's will for me, rather than specifically for my conversion.

[Irisshlass]

I just want missionary efforts to the Jews to cease.


I'm not...I saw your post saying Jesus did not fulfill the OT...I disagreed...I wish people here recognize this is a open forum and if you don't want to be challenged on your posts...don't say it..

[B-Chan]

God's Will is that everyone be saved. How He accomplishes that miracle is His business.

Our business is to spread the Gospel, not "sell" the Gospel like soap and toothpaste.Only the inspiration of the Holy Spirit can lead a man to realize that Jesus Christ is God. I pray He leads you to that realization.

In any case, I will continue to pray for you, and I hope you'll remember me in your prayers as well.

[malakhi]

I'm not...I saw your post saying Jesus did not fulfill the OT...I disagreed...I wish people here recognize this is a open forum and if you don't want to be challenged on your posts...don't say it..

You misunderstood my intentions, Irishlass. I was saying that as a general comment, not something directed towards you.

I've been having these discussions on religion threads for almost two years now. I've been encouraged to study the scriptures in greater depth, and to learn more about my beliefs. I've met some wonderful people. But there are only so many times you can cover the same ground. There is nothing I'd post in reply to your scripture passages that I haven't said elsewhere three or nine times already. Maybe I'm just getting burned out.

[malakhi]

In any case, I will continue to pray for you, and I hope you'll remember me in your prayers as well.

Thank you B-Chan. May God's blessings be with you.

[Catholicguy]

We will know that the Great Apostasy has begun.

<> Who is the "we," Kimosabe? :)<>

[Desdemona]

Ummm, angelo, I grew up in a very Jewish neighborhood. I even understand Yiddish. I know the Kosher rules quite well, thank you.

[Desdemona]

Jesus did not fulfil the messianic prophecies,

How so and why not?

Oh, and no one's version of history is ever objective. Not even in an encyclopedia.

[malakhi]

Ummm, angelo, I grew up in a very Jewish neighborhood. I even understand Yiddish. I know the Kosher rules quite well, thank you.

Then I fail to understand the purpose of your post #44.

[Desdemona]

Then I fail to understand the purpose of your post #44.

Rhetorical question/joke. BTW, do you have a kosher kitchen? Two refridgerators, two dishwashers, etc.?

[malakhi]

Jesus did not fulfil the messianic prophecies

How so and why not?

Very briefly, there are four primary messianic prophecies (and many secondary ones). The primary ones are: world peace, ingathering of Israel, the building of the third temple, and universal knowledge of God. None of these was fulfilled within the lifetime of Jesus, which is why they were either spiritualized or put off for some future 'second coming'. There is nothing in the Hebrew scriptures which prophecies a second coming of the messiah.

[FBDinNJ]

Kasper's a moron. I was just on a retreat with a very nice jewish guy who's currently in a RCIA program and is going to become Catholic. He's converting because his wife has been bringing him to church for the past decade and he was finally moved to receive the sacraments.