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We can never know that we are elected of God to eternal life except by manifesting in our lives the fruits of election: faith and virtue, knowledge and temperance, patience and godliness, love of the brethren and that essential love that does not put limits to its object.

Surprise! I agree.

(Now why anyone would call this salvation by "faith alone" is a different question. It is stated here most clearly that we can never know we are saved except that we have good works.)

(Now why anyone would call this salvation by "faith alone" is a different question. It is stated here most clearly that we can never know we are saved except that we have good works.)

Agreed..a dead tree bears no fruit..the fruit show the tree is attached to the root system...the one point might be the source of the works..(it has to be HIM not us..there are lots of very "good" heathans)

***It is stated here most clearly that we can never know we are saved except that we have good works.***

Faith alone saves. The faith which saves is never alone. Works are the evidence not the basis for salvation. Our security is based upon His work for us.

Analogy (somewhat of a reverse nature): A high fever is evidence we are sick. The fever is not what makes us sick.

Good works are the symptoms that we have the real "disease" -- regeneration (using the analogy). They are the basis for our assurrance -- this is SL Johnson's point.

Still agree?

"Now why anyone would call this salvation by "faith alone" is a different question. It is stated here most clearly that we can never know we are saved except that we have good works."

Hey this is an easy one Dave; the salvation is not by works, the works are by salvation. - If there are no visible works, then the alleged salvation was not real.

(...not of works, lest any man should boast...)

(Now why anyone would call this salvation by "faith alone" is a different question. It is stated here most clearly that we can never know we are saved except that we have good works.)

It's a matter of the relationship of good works to salvation, Dave. The only good work that merits our salvation is the work of Christ. The works that WE do are our obligation out of faith, not necessity. Faith produces in us the ability and desire to do good works. Our works are not kept on a tally sheet in the hopes that they'll add up to the price required to purchase our salvation. The faith that James talks about...the one that without works is dead...is not saving faith. The works are the outward evidence of the faith. Any "Calvinist" that minimizes the importance of works to the point of them being "unnecessary" in life has no understanding of true faith. I've witnessed this in my own life. I am compelled to do things and think things that I never was before, not consciously because I think of the favor gained or merit earned from them, but because I know they are pleasing to God and expected of me because of the price that was paid for me.

In my estimation, the argument between a lot of the Calvinists and Arminians is just semantics. We're just arguing for the most part over the logistics of our arriving at our present condition, not the fact of our salvation:)