Burial Box of St. James (A Catholic Perspective)

Catholic Answers ^ | Oct 22, 2002 | James Akin

[Irisshlass]

Joseph was already betrothed to Mary...legally married..
Since he discovered her with child, he had to put her death for adultery, publicly condemn her or put her away privately...till the angel spoke to him in a dream...do not fear..take her as your wife..

Deuteronomy 22
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [1] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


Also...a woman who had known another man, was considered no longer fit to be with..

2 Samuel 20
3 When David returned to his palace in Jerusalem, he took the ten concubines he had left to take care of the palace and put them in a house under guard. He provided for them, but did not lie with them. They were kept in confinement till the day of their death, living as widows.


The angel also revealed that the Holy Spirit was her spouse..

[IncredibleHulk]

Joseph was already betrothed to Mary...legally married.. Since he discovered her with child, he had to put her death for adultery, publicly condemn her or put her away privately...till the angel spoke to him in a dream...do not fear..take her as your wife..

Betrothed isn't married. It is the first stage of a dynastic marriage that does not seal or finalize the marriage. Secondly, he was not going to put her away "privately". The correct word there is "privaly" and has no relationship to the word private. You need to do your homework and stop listening to people who take your money for your religious education.

[Pyro7480]

I think another big point comes from the Gospel of John (19: 26-27). If Mary had any other children, why would Jesus leave Mary to the Apostle John while He was dying on the cross? Jesus probably would have let His blood brothers and sisters take care of her if He actually had any.

[xzins]

Jesus probably would have let His blood brothers and sisters take care of her if He actually had any

If Jesus shared the same Father with them but not the same Mother, then he might well have provided for her separately.

Joseph, perhaps, had married another woman prior to Mary or after Mary. That could also explain the brother.

Then, of course, there's the possibility that Mary had other children by Joseph.

[RnMomof7]

None of that addresses if they had sex Irish..The bible says she was Josephs wife..I accept that ..what difference would it make?

[AlguyA]

"If it weren't for Catholics that are duped by tradition that contradicts Scripture..."

But this is your problem. You baldly assert, here, that our Tradition contradicts Scripture. I asked for Scripture that was contradictory and you proved incapable of providing any. Yet, you hold it as a tenet of your faith that we are wrong. Perhaps this is a tradition of your own?

[Irisshlass]

<>None of that addresses if they had sex Irish..The bible says she was Josephs wife..I accept that ..what difference would it make?<>

In Jewish Law a man betrothed to a woman was considered legally married to her..The word for betrothed in Hebrew is Kiddush..By betrothal a woman became the property of the husband, forbidden to others..

Matthew1
The Birth of Jesus Christ

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

In Luke 1:35...
The angel Gabriel told Mary..."The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you..."

The angel was telling Mary that God would enter into a marital relationship with her..."wing" or "cloak" over a woman meant marital relations...

Ruth 3
9 He said, "Who are you?" And she answered, "I am Ruth your maid. So spread your covering over your maid, for you are a [1] close relative."

When God speaks to Israel..he says in
Isaiah 54
5 For your Maker is your husband-
the LORD Almighty is his name-
the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;
he is called the God of all the earth.

Ezekiel 16
8 "Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I (5) spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also (6) swore to you and (7) entered into a covenant with you so that you (8) became Mine," declares the Lord GOD.

Joseph knew from His dream God was Mary's husband...and he was forbidden all time..go back and look at the scripture I gave previous...Gen, Sam...adultery carried a sense of defilement...if a woman had known contact with another man she was no longer fit to be visited by her husband...In Jeremiah 3
1 God says, "(1) If a husband divorces his wife
And she goes from him
And belongs to another man,
Will he still return to her?
Will not that land be completely polluted?
But you (2) are a harlot with many lovers;"

[Irisshlass]

Betrothed isn't married...really...are there Jewish people here? Ask them...betrothed in Hebrew is Kiddush...

You need to do your homework and stop listening to people who take your money for your religious education.

I back up what I say in Scripture...seems to me you need to do your homework..

[RnMomof7]

I believe she was a Virgin at the time of the birth of Jesus ..that is not the question at hand...

Irish what difference does it make?

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Hypocrisy or scriptural ignorance?

In your case ignorance. The revolutionaries Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Why don't you "learned" protestants ever mention that.

[RnMomof7]

Joseph knew from His dream God was Mary's husband.

There are some Mormons that believe that the Father has spiritual sex (of a sort) with Mary and she was therefore Gods eternal wife..and is married to him in heaven IS THAT WHAT YOU BELIEVE? Did God have sex with Mary?..Where does it say that she was "married to God"? Did Joseph make Mary commit bigomy when He married her?

Then Joseph being raised from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him and took unto him HIS WIFE: and KNEW HER NOT TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son; and she called his name Jesus.

[Irisshlass]

and KNEW HER NOT TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son; and she called his name Jesus.

Till does not indicate a change in behavior...

Romans 8
22 For we know that the whole creation (1) groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

1 Timothy 4
13 (1) Until I come, give attention to the public (2) reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.

1 Timothy 6
14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the (1) appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 2
25 'Nevertheless (1) what you have, hold fast (2) until I come

2 Samuel 6
23 Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death.

[Irisshlass]

Where does it say that she was "married to God"?

I tried to show you in scripture that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit...

You need to go back to the OT to understand who Mary is..

Mary became the Holy of Holies in the Temple where God dwelt...Mary is the the bearer of the new covenant and the Ark of the Old Covenant..

Luke 1
43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of (1) my Lord would come to me?

2 Samuel 6
9 So (1) David was afraid of the LORD that day; and he said, "How can the ark of the LORD come to me?"

Luke 1
44As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

2 Samuel 6
14 David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might, 15 while he and the entire house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouts and the sound of trumpets.
16 As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD , she despised him in her heart.

Luke 1
Mary Visits Elizabeth

39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to (1) the hill country, to a city of Judah,
40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was (2) filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of (3) my Lord would come to me?
44 "For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.
45 "And (4) blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord."

The Ark Is Brought to Jerusalem
2 Sam 6
12 Now it was told King David, saying, "The LORD has blessed the house of Obed-edom and all that belongs to him, on account of the ark of God." (3) David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-edom into (4) the city of David with gladness.

[Cleburne]

un·til   
prep. 
Up to the time of: We danced until dawn. 
Before (a specified time): She can't leave until Friday. 
Scots. Unto; to. 

conj. 
Up to the time that: We walked until it got dark. 
Before: You cannot leave until your work is finished. 
To the point or extent that: I talked until I was hoarse. 

Till is the original form of until, so the definitions are the same. I do not have my Greek interlinear or gloss with me, and am too lazy to run upstairs to get it:) At any rate, I see "knew her not till" as implying that Joseph "did not know her" until after she had brought forth her son- why would such a phrase be included if he did not "know her" afterwards? It seems terribly straightforward to me.

[RnMomof7]

None of that scripture address the issue...you are just throwing stuff out there now Irish..

[Irisshlass]

Revelation 2
25 'Nevertheless (1) what you have, hold fast (2) until I come


So your saying when Christ comes we throw out everything we believe and have been taught?

[RnMomof7]

You need to understand the heresy of calling Mary the ark..the Ark the place where God met his people in the Holy of Holies..I took some Catholic stuff on that to the Bible college I take a class at (there are Christians from different churches there) and there was appalled laughter at the thought that the Catholic Chruch has placed Mary in Gods place..

Did Mary sit on the Mercy seat and judge the people?Is that where she sat to talk to the people of Israel? It is blasphmy...and again not to the point..Do you believe like the Mormons that God had sex with Mary and she became his wife for eternity? Why would God have made her guilty of bigamy ?

Do you have to make her a god to justify her life, her holiness or purpose?

The Mormons think she is a godess do you?

[Irisshlass]

None of that scripture address the issue...you are just throwing stuff out there now Irish..

No I'm not..you just don't understand it..

[RnMomof7]

http://www.ark-of-the-covenant.com/


http://www.jesusone.com/biblestudies/thearkofthecovenant.htm

[RnMomof7]

Well please take some time and explain how each one of those scriptures address if Mary was an obedient wife to Joseph or did she deny him his rights as her husband and thus sin...

I am on my way out but I would like it if you addressed the issue of why the bible says UNTILL her son was born ,and why it calls Jesus her firstborn son..

Irish my faith is in Jesus Christ ..It means nothing to me if Mary and Joseph had sex or other children...I find this of interest in that Catholics feel the need to make Mary a godess..and this is a part of it

Is sex dirty? Is it a sin between a loving man and his wife? Did Mary love Joseph? Did Joseph love Mary?