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To: Grig
The gospel is unchanging, true, but man's understanding of it has evolved away from the truth, and the authority of God was lost. A prophet was required to restore the fullness of the gospel and the authority. There was much knowledge that had to be restored, and what little of it you already know of you clearly reject.

This is, once again, merely a claim of the LDS church. What is the evidence for such a claim?

And, for the record, I do not reject the teaching of the LDS church.

It would be much more accurate to say, that, as of this point in time, ... I am simply unpersuaded.

At this point in time, I would say that the evidence the LDS church has presented to back up it's claims ... has simply been unpersuasive.


120 posted on 10/05/2002 10:09:38 PM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester
Gotta get some sleep now, I'll answer you later, but in the meantime, could you let me know you reasons for researching this, it will help me answer you better. Do you want to just understand the position of other religions and evaluate them by your own means, mild curiosity, searching for truth, or what.
126 posted on 10/05/2002 10:34:00 PM PDT by Grig
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To: Quester
"This is, once again, merely a claim of the LDS church. What is the evidence for such a claim?"

It is not a big deal to make a list of several things that we consider to be evidence that an apostasy took place, but it is wrong to think that our belive is based in the existance of these evidences. It is the witness of the Holy Ghost that is the foundation our our belief in that, not the arguments of men.

I'm not saything that to dodge the issue, I will direct you to some sources that point out some of the things we see as evidence, but I say to clarify to you that my purpose is not to 'prove' it happened and make you accept our view. My purpose is to explain our position, and then you can decided to do with that information as you think is wise. There is no truth that man can not harden his heart against if he wishes to, but the elect of God will not harden their hearts against the truth. If you are convinced afterwards or not doesn't change the truth of it.

Actually the idea of there being an apostacy is not exclusive to the LDS, every protestant faith began with somebody coming to the same conclustion that an apostasy took place. John Wesley said "This is the real cause why the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian Church; because the Christians were turned Heathen again, and had only a dead form left." (Wesley's Works, vol 7, sermon 89, pp. 26-27) Martin Luther said: "The spiritual powers have been not only corrupted by sin, but absolutely destroyed; so that there is now a will that is the enemy and opponent of God. I simply say that Christianity had ceased to exist among those who should have preserved it." (Luther and his times, p 509)

If I recall correctly, neither Luther or Wesley had the intention of founding a new church, they did not consider themselves to have the authority of God to do so. They sought to reform the existing church, but when rejected those who belived what they said established churches in their name. We take the position that the apostasy was to the point where reformation could not being back what was lost, so a restoration was needed.

In term so evidences we would point to that support our claim, I will give you some usefull links and encourage you to give serious consideration and prayer to what is said there:

http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1984.htm/ensign%20december%201984%20.htm/early%20signs%20of%20the%20apostasy.htm?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&q=apostasy&x=Simple&2.0#LPHit1

http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1995.htm/ensign%20december%201995.htm/apostasy%20restoration%20and%20lessons%20in%20faith.htm?f=hitlist&q=apostasy&x=Simple&opt=&skc=8000000940264CA1601C92B1000024A0&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai016.html


133 posted on 10/06/2002 4:15:13 PM PDT by Grig
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