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To: angelo
Nope, God knew we would sin. That's why He gave us a Day of Atonement, and told us He would forgive us if we repented.

God did know we would sin that is why he gave us Jesus

Maybe we do worship two different Gods... My God forgives us when we stumble and repent. My God is just, and does not punish us infinitely for a finite sin.

Could I have your scriptural reference on that ? See ange he does not even hear your prayer.. you are caught in a viscious circle.. God will not hear your prayer if you are a sinner...and you can not repent that sin because He can not hear you

Prov 15:8
8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight. (KJV)

Prov 15:29
29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous. (KJV)

God does not hear all prayer..He closes his ears to the prayers of many..the only prayer of the unsaved He hears is their prayer for salvation or one that was already in his will..Why do you think so often in scripture that someone begs God to hear their prayer?

Proverbs 15:8
                      The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright                       [is] his delight.

                 Proverbs 15:29
                      The LORD [is] far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

                 Proverbs 28:9
                     He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination

Jeremiah 7:16
                      Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither                       make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Jeremiah 11:14
                      Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will                       not hear [them] in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

Lamentations 3:8
                      Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.

Lamentations 3:44
                      Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that [our] prayer should not pass through.

                  Psa 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:

Pro 15:8 
  The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.

Mic 3:4  
Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

Jhn 9:31 
  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

(Psalm 66:18
If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 28:9;
"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.

ISAIAH 59:2-
"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, that He will not hear

Jer 14:12
When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.

    1Pe 3:12  
For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil.

492 posted on 10/01/2002 3:57:07 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
God's glory has departed from the Jewish nation and now rests on a despised and foolish nation,as Moses prophesied would happen if the Jews forsook Him, and we are proud to be fools for Christ and for the Father. It was done to provoke jealousy, so that the nation of Israel would repent and turn again and worship Hashem as they once did. They go thru all the motions, but He is still far from them and it will be so until the time of the Gentiles is ended. In the meantime, salvation is certainly open to individuals of the Jewish faith, in which I count myself one. Why in the world anyone would desert Christ and return to the old covenant of the Law, which was annulled, is beyond me.
494 posted on 10/01/2002 4:05:49 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: RnMomof7
God did know we would sin that is why he gave us Jesus

Beyond the fact that Ezekiel clearly states that every man is responsible for his own sins, and that no man can atone for the sins of another, there remains the fact that there were already multiple mechanisms in place for the forgiveness of sin. If you sin, you must repent and ask forgiveness. God says He will forgive. No need for the substitutionary sacrifice of a God-man.

Maybe we do worship two different Gods... My God forgives us when we stumble and repent. My God is just, and does not punish us infinitely for a finite sin.

Could I have your scriptural reference on that ?

I acknowledged my sin to thee,
and I did not hide my iniquity;
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD";
then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin. (Psalm 32:5)

The LORD is just in all his ways,
and kind in all his doings. (Psalm 145:17)

The LORD kills and brings to life;
he brings down to Sheol and raises up. (1 Samuel 2:6)

See ange he does not even hear your prayer.

You really believe this? (shakes head) All the passages you cite make a good point, but you are not in a position to judge whether or not I am wicked, and whether or not God hears my prayers. How incredibly ironic that you should quote Proverbs 28:9 "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination".

544 posted on 10/01/2002 11:29:12 PM PDT by malakhi
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