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To: angelo
Second, just because someone claims to be Lord and God does not make him so.

Exactly, so either Jesus is both Lord and God as He claimed to be and His death was a murder at the hands of Herod and Pontius Pilate and the Gentiles and Israel or He was a man who so richly deserved death under the Law for His blasphemy. And if He deserved His death, then I am nothing more than a God hating blasphemer myself.

But, hey, the throne of the Son is David's throne. Even now He sits upon it.
474 posted on 10/01/2002 3:02:05 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody; angelo
Even now He sits upon it

A Psalm of David, 110: The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

WHO is David's Lord? Can't be David.

477 posted on 10/01/2002 3:06:29 PM PDT by JesseShurun
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To: CCWoody
Exactly, so either Jesus is both Lord and God as He claimed to be and His death was a murder at the hands of Herod and Pontius Pilate and the Gentiles and Israel or He was a man who so richly deserved death under the Law for His blasphemy.

These are not the only two possibilities. It is possible that Jesus was in fact an orthodox Jew who never made the claims to divinity later attributed to him. It is possible that in the decades after his death the hagiography progressed to the point of him being seen as divine. If you don't think this is possible, you may wish to consider the fascinating case of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Schneerson, who died in 1994. Towards the end of his life, some of his followers believed him to be the messiah. After his death, some of them still continued to believe he was the messiah, despite the long-established teaching of orthodox Judaism that the messianic prophecies will be fulfilled within the messiah's lifetime. Beyond even this, a subset of these messianics have claimed that Schneerson was God incarnate. I'm sure you will agree with me that the late Rebbe isn't God.

Trick question: at what point did Jesus become God?

And if He deserved His death, then I am nothing more than a God hating blasphemer myself.

Au contraire mon frere! As a gentile you are not bound to observe all the Law of the Torah. Gentiles are under the Noahide covenant. According to Judaism, non-Jews who follow (deliberately or otherwise) the Seven Laws of Noah (kind of a streamlined 10 Commandments) are righteous gentiles. Christianity is an acceptable form of monotheism for gentiles.

535 posted on 10/01/2002 9:51:33 PM PDT by malakhi
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