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Pollster says he can't find Christianity transforming lives
Los Angeles Times | Published Sep 28, 2002 | William Lobdell

Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.

His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.

The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."

His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:

• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.

• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.

• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.

• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."

'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."

Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.

His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.

"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."

Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.

But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.

"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."

According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.

"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."

Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.

What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.

For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.

9/11 opportunity lost

The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.

"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.

This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.

Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.

The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.

"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."

With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.

The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."

Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.

Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.

"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: not; transforminglives
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To: Quester; CubicleGuy
Why should we believe Joseph?

1- Because the Heavenly Father said, this is my beloved Son, hear Him

2- Jesus instructed Joseph in how to restore and set up His Jesus Church here sgsin on earth in these latter-days.

Jesus instructed Joseph to do everything in an orderly matter. Precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little.

A FIRM FOUNDATION!

721 posted on 10/02/2002 7:39:59 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Quester; CubicleGuy
2- Jesus instructed Joseph in how to restore and set up His Jesus Church here sgsin on earth in these latter-days.

sgsin typo, should be again

2- Jesus instructed Joseph in how to restore and set up His Jesus Church here again on earth in these latter-days.

722 posted on 10/02/2002 7:44:16 PM PDT by restornu
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To: RnMomof7
The only thing that will get angelo to believe in Christ is when Incomplete though I will finish...When Gods grace washes over him :>)

The Lord Jesus: If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.
723 posted on 10/02/2002 7:44:32 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
YEP
724 posted on 10/02/2002 7:47:47 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: restornu; Wrigley
Jesus instructed Joseph to do everything in an orderly matter. Decept upon decept, lie upon lie, here a lie and there a lie.


725 posted on 10/02/2002 7:48:39 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: restornu
A FIRM FOUNDATION

The Mormon church has that? LOL. NJ needs more gullibel people. You should move.

726 posted on 10/02/2002 8:05:10 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: drstevej; restornu
More of the Mormon divine inspiration.


727 posted on 10/02/2002 8:08:49 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: drstevej; Quester; CubicleGuy
Steve you fill you soul with rancor when you do things like this!

When you are consumed by ire, you deny in your being a place to receive Jesus love.

For Ire and Love can not dwell together.

728 posted on 10/02/2002 8:16:07 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu; Wrigley; xzins; RnMomof7; Admin Moderator
***Steve you fill you soul with rancor when you do things like this! ***

***When you are consumed by ire***

Restornu, who gave you the right to tell another person what is in their soul? Your post is certainly not the first of your self-righteous pronouncements about the motives of another person. You are a habitual name caller. So where do you get the authority to lecture others about how love and ire can not dwell together.

Furthermore, although Sticky wings was banned, your other alter ego, itsfreewill is still active. Why? Have you requested that this duplicate user name be closed? If not, why?

Itsfreewill signed up 2002-05-06.
E-mail: itsfreewill@yahoo.com

729 posted on 10/02/2002 8:35:21 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Decept upon decept. Lie upon lie. LOL!

BTW Jack and Phil will be back soon. I've been really busy at work. I hope to continue the debate sometime in the next week or so.

Phil

730 posted on 10/02/2002 8:47:56 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
Will be awaiting the next installment!
731 posted on 10/02/2002 8:49:16 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Wrigley; drstevej; CubicleGuy
We LDS have a priceless heritage and will feast this weekend as the prophet make known to us the things the Lord wants us as a people to adhear too! So we as a people can continiue to walk upright, in the way's of the Lord.

You Wrigley and Steve may try to debase the LDS. There is in the Universe a merciless law, which all mortals are judge by, a day will come where all will be judge. Some will remain subject to the Sons of Perdition.

The Lord had done everything he could to redeem us, but not all will return for they refuse to listen to the Master voice. So they will remain subject to the Sons of Prediiton.

I don't think you will be under total subject, but you could be under eternal surveillance to continue to receive buffed.

TODAY YOU BUFFED THE LDS, IN THE SPIRIT WORLD YOU ARE SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF THE UNIVERSE:)
732 posted on 10/02/2002 8:52:55 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu; Admin Moderator
Why have you not had your other freeper screen name deleted? What kind of integrity is this? Are you unwilling to acknowledge to the admin moderator that you have been using three concurrent screen names?

restornu,
sticky wings and
itsfreewill...
733 posted on 10/02/2002 8:57:52 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Itsfreewill; restornu; Admin Moderator
Why is your screen name still active?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/759193/posts?page=81#81

I suggest you settle this deception without delay.
734 posted on 10/02/2002 9:12:59 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; CubicleGuy
This is pure rancor that you have displayed and it continues for your pride.

am not ashamed of my playful names. I learn a lot that many here have multi names! Which I won't repeat!

I enjoyed my fun names I still think the recipe for a Kangaroo Sandwich is a scream:)

Even you Steve have multi names, I don't care if you do!

I have cleared the air and I feel good!

Steve can LOVE and IRE dwell together in the LORD'S KINGDOM?

Is it not true to have the Lord's LOVE in our heart, we can not entertain IRE too?

What differents would it make you know the name as well as about 14 others I told, what you think you were the only one, huh? I even told PM. You thought you tell on me, you foolish being! Sadly Steve, you are so wee!

735 posted on 10/02/2002 9:17:08 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
1- Because the Heavenly Father said, this is my beloved Son, hear Him

... and who are the witnesses to this ?

2- Jesus instructed Joseph in how to restore and set up His Jesus Church here again on earth in these latter-days.

... according to who ?

736 posted on 10/02/2002 9:19:00 PM PDT by Quester
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To: restornu; Admin Moderator
***Even you Steve have multi names, I don't care if you do!***

I have only posted on free republic as drstevej. Prove otherwise. What other name have I used on Free Republic? Either post it or retract your statement.

It is contrary to the policy of Free Republic to have more than one screen name. It doesn't matter who you told, you did not acknowledge this to the admin moderator and have the account deleted.

***I have cleared the air and I feel good!***
Why is your second name still active?
737 posted on 10/02/2002 9:26:30 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; CubicleGuy; Grig; Utah Girl; rising tide; White Mountain
***Even you Steve have multi names, I don't care if you do!***

I have only posted on free republic as drstevej. Prove otherwise. What other name have I used on Free Republic? Either post it or retract your statement.


Here it is Wee Steve

I remember seeing Dr. Underroo and I am sure others here have. You said you later changed it to gadfly, but have not use it yet?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/finduser?user=gadfly


738 posted on 10/02/2002 9:43:43 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu; Admin Moderator
Underroo and Your Gadfly were screen names on about.com not free republic. When I changed my screen name from Underroo to Your Gadfly I notified the host and stated the name change publically.

I have never used either name as a user name on FR and gadfly is not me.

So retract your statement, it is a lie.
739 posted on 10/02/2002 10:11:27 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: restornu; Admin Moderator; RnMomof7; CubicleGuy; Wrigley
Here's the proof... Those screen names were on about.com forums, never Free Republic!


http://forums.about.com/ab-lds/messages?msg=3549.1
740 posted on 10/02/2002 10:19:20 PM PDT by drstevej
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