Pollster says he can't find Christianity transforming lives

Los Angeles Times | Published Sep 28, 2002 | William Lobdell

[RnMomof7]

Did God tell you to write that?

God knew I would write it and he didn't stop me :>) He also knew I had an appointment with an infection specialist and would have to leave in a minute...see how well God planned your question:>)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption

Who is Spurgeon, but a mear man, not God Mom, he too can be wrong. :)

BigMack

[malakhi]

279 posts so far and no flames, we are growing (or am I just being hopefull?)

Go ahead Mack, I know you're itching to! ;o)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

You don't think God wishes ALL men saved? How do you read this verse?

Amplified Version 1 Tim. 2:4 Who wishes all men to be saved and increasingly to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the divine Truth.

If God wishes all men saved and has the power to save them if He choose to do so, regardless of what man does (which I believe He could), but all men are NOT saved then there has to be a condition on salvation. That condition is man choosing to believe or not. It's not God's fault if someone is lost, He wants All men saved, but he gave all men the free will to choose.

Becky

[RnMomof7]

The Apostle Paul himself says so in Romans 4:5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts (KJV= Believes) God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. Paul specifically says here that believing is different than working.

Is all faith the same? Can I believe in Big Bird saving me? Will that do it?

Or is there a saving Faith in Christ?

Faith does not save anyone xzins ..Faith is a tool to bring us to Christ who does save...

John 3:27 - "John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven."

God has to give people faith as a gift so that they can believe on Christ:

Ephesians 2:8 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

Regarding salvation, man has absolutely nothing to contribute: "knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked?" (Revelation 3:17).

[xzins]

You're going to have to focus that post for me, Rn. I don't see how you want me to apply it to Rom 4:5.

[malakhi]

the Bible old and new testiment is clear man will never choose God

Genesis 6:5 - "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

So God just wiped them all out, and that was the end of the story. Right?

What about that Noah fellow?

Please reread what you just wrote:

the Bible old and new testiment is clear man will never choose God

How then do you then account for the many men who do choose God? How do you account for Joshua choosing God?

[malakhi]

Cite the relavent Hebrews passages for me!

For clarification, I said "Hebrew scriptures", referring to the "Old Testament", not the epistle to the Hebrews. Just one example:

These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God. (Genesis 6:9)

[CCWoody]

It is interesting that you would assume that this is what Joshua meant. Reread what it says. Joshua is not declaring that they are unwilling to serve God. Rather, he says that IF they are unwilling to serve the Lord, THEN choose among the pagan gods.

I don't have to assume this. All I have to do is read the context to know that this is what Joshua meant. These people had to put away the idols they were already serving.

Joshua chooses to serve the Lord. How do you propose that he was able to do this?

He found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

[malakhi]

That Book of life was written BEFORE time..before the foundation of the earth...

Well, that's not in my bible, but perhaps you can explain how the passage in Revelation you reference can be literally true. Is Revelation generally interpreted literally? Is there a literal, physical "Book of Life" that someone literally wrote names into prior to the creation of the world? Wouldn't this imply the existence of some sort of physical creation prior to physical creation?

What does it mean to say "before the foundation of the world", anyway? What meaning does "before" have prior to the creation of time?

[CCWoody]

Great! Just for my clarification, are you willing to stipulate that Noah has his own righteousness that is not from the grace of God?

[malakhi]

You heard but you rejected why?

Because I studied it and came to the conclusion that some of the core doctrines are not true. Because I came to the realization that God had made a covenant with my people, that it was still in effect, and that I was a part of it.

How do you know one thief heard and not the other one?

They both may have. Please note that I did not specify whether the "good" thief was right or not in professing faith in Jesus. Only that he may have heard about Jesus previously. If the gospel accounts are accurate, most of Judea would have heard of him by that point.

Look at this people would rather be tortured than call Jesus Lord

Jewish people have been persecuted for much of the last 2000 years for refusing to call Jesus Lord. Many died with the words of the Sh'ma on their lips.

Hear, O Israel. is our God; is One.

Should I ever find myself subject to persecution for my beliefs, I would pray for the strength to do the same.

I am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
"You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:2-3)

You shall be careful to do therefore as your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. (Deuteronomy 5:32)

[malakhi]

Then what does their being "bought" signify? Of what value is it?

It is the difference between "redemption" and "salvation".

[malakhi]

Yep. That didn't work too well during the Spanish Inquisition either.

(Uh oh.)

What was that you said earlier? Oh, right:

Like I said, just ask me. Sooner or later you won't even need me around! ;-)

;o)

[malakhi]

Where does it say that God withdrew His control of His creation and ceeded it to man? Could I have the chapter and verse?

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26)

[maestro]

From #178)

Bottom Line MUST be:

"So then 'FAITH' cometh by hearing, and hearing 'BY' The WORD of GOD."

(Romans 10:17)

Maranatha!

[malakhi]

Oh yeah, angelo already laid claim to my Harley, you will have to take the GoldWing, after the rapture. :)

Hey, you promised me the GoldWing too! But I'll let Dave have it if he wants. ;o)

[SoothingDave]

If it is His desire to save everyone why is not everyone saved then? Why did he not choose a universal atonment?

So then, Spurgeon and you are arguing that "all" doesn't mean "all?"

At lest that is an explanation. I couldn't see why you kept saying that, since if God desired all to be saved and they all aren't, then His power is in question.

SD

[malakhi]

He set aside a rhemnant for himself when we all belong in hell

Why do you think you belong in hell?

[SoothingDave]

Hey, you promised me the GoldWing too! But I'll let Dave have it if he wants. ;o)

My mom won't let me ride motorbikes. Though I imgaine I could cash it in. Assuming any other bikers miss out on the Rapture.

SD