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To: xzins; editor-surveyor; Jerry_M; jude24; OrthodoxPresbyterian; BibChr; Matchett-PI; Jean Chauvin; ..
In my post #33, I said that "John 5:29 does not permit two worldwide bodily resurrection episodes. You have to LIE to fit a thousand years between the postulated literal, mass resurrection episodes."

A clearer way to say this is that the premills need for there to be two mass, bodily resurrections in John 5:25-29, but the resurrection mentioned in v.25 is not a bodily resurrection.

That, in turn, means that the premills need for there to be two mass, bodily resurrections in John 5:28-29. Moreover, the premills need for these to be separated by a literal thousand years. Moreover, the premills need to have believers and unbelievers appearing before the Judgment throne of Christ a thousand years apart.

But John 5:28-29 flatly contradicts the above scenario. It is clearly telling us that there is single bodily resurrection episode for all souls. So, the premill claims are a SATANIC FRAUD.

Thus, the first resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20 is the same one mentioned in John 5:25. The first resurrection in the millennial kingdom of Christ is regeneration-unto-conversion.

Cute, huh? It is just a visionary presentation of our privileges in the gospel. And this is why it's the only place in the entire Bible which explicitly refers to "the thousand years."

The fact that the first resurrection is merely one's experience of conversion unto Christ is why Revelation 20 says "Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power." In other words, this verse is saying precisely the same thing which the Lord said in verse 24 of John 5.

BTW, the fact that the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is not a literal, bodily resurrection also explains something else which the premills are forced to ignore in Revelation 20. The text says "I saw the souls of those who were beheaded."

This strained grammar is telling us that he saw disembodied spirits. They did not have their physically resurrected bodies--because the first resurrection doesn't resurrect their bodies anyway! They were still awaiting their resurrected bodies--i.e., from the second resurrection, of course!

By the way, you should also ask yourself why Revelation 20 describes the disembodied souls as having been "beheaded" rather than fed to the lions or burned to death or the like. (I'll give you a hint: they were not literally beheaded anymore than they were literally resurrected.)

***

Like I said, the literal reading is a trap for the enemies of God. Alas, a few of His true disciples have misunderstood the Lord, but this also happened with His disciples during His earthly ministry.

And I would remind you that the Lord explicitly declared that He used figurative language in order that His enemies would not understand. So, it is not at all wise to presume that Revelation 20 should be read literally. In fact it is stupid to assume that. We have to figure out how to read it. We have to use clearer Scriptures like John 5:25-29 to figure out whether it is to be read literally or non-literally. And John 5:28-29 actually CRUSHES the smug premills' reading.

So does 2 Peter 3.

So, don't scoff at the amills. To do so is to scoff at God Himself.

***

Based on the history of your stubbornness on these threads, I assume that you will not come around, xzins. That's fine with me. When the Lord returns, I'm gonna win the argument.

45 posted on 09/12/2002 12:17:11 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: the_doc; fortheDeclaration; winstonchurchill; ShadowAce; P-Marlowe; Revelation 911; ...
the_doc says: literal reading is a trap for the enemies of God

That is a remarkable statement; a position birthed in a liberal mindset.

I'd say it's a vote for tossing out the bible.

48 posted on 09/12/2002 12:25:55 PM PDT by xzins
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To: the_doc
BTW, the fact that the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is not a literal, bodily resurrection also explains something else which the premills are forced to ignore in Revelation 20. The text says "I saw the souls of those who were beheaded."

What? Here is Revelation 20:4

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

John is just describing those who are resurrected and enter the Kingdom. First are those who were sitting on the thrones – the raptured Church. The second group are those who were beheaded for being Christians – the Tribulation Saints.

These two groups, as well as those saved who are still alive when Christ returns are ushered into the literal 1,000 year Kingdom of Christ.

We have to figure out how to read it.

Like those icons of Christian orthodoxy like Philo and Origen? Spiritualize everything?

50 posted on 09/12/2002 12:30:36 PM PDT by ksen
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To: the_doc; ksen; xzins
The first resurrection, the soul AND the second resurrection, the body????????. Whoa, doc -------

Each person gets only one resurrection. They are either in the first resurrection that "lives and reigns with Christ a thousand years", or the second resurrection with the "rest of the dead who lived not again until the thousand years were finished". The former the resurrection of the just and the latter the resurrection of the unjust who are all judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Are you sure you didn't miss some "prepositions" , and a few nouns and verbs along with them?

Which resurrection are you shooting for , doc? first or second?

61 posted on 09/12/2002 12:53:31 PM PDT by Woodkirk
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