[Matchett-PI]

After my two attempts, you still don't *get it*. I know a third attempt will be no different.

Those who have eyes to see, *will* see, those who don't, won't.

[theAmbassador]

What hope doesn't get is that unity within the visible church is most definitely not the will of God. The Lord brought a sword of division for the visible church. This is, as you have pointed out with the references to parables, only a foreshadowing of the separation which will take place when the Lord returns.

The pretenders will recive in their souls the wrath of God which already abides upon them (John 3:18, 3:36).

And we shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Him. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to us. Will we not be moved to a greater sense of awareness of just how wonderful the unmerited grace of God really is when we see this? Shall we not rejoice to know that we are not the objects of God fierce wrath? Shall we not fall down and give God glory through praise and worship? Shall we not feel awe and wonder to simply know that the only difference between us and the reprobate is the free grace of God that He has in His sovereignty bestowed?

[hopespringseternal]

I know exactly what you are saying. Go look at the prayer. In fact, here it is for you:

John 17:20-23
I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

If Christ is talking about the "invisible" church, how could the world see "their" unity?

Contemporary Christians don't just tell Paul to get lost on this subject, they also tell Jesus to get lost. Contemporary Christians say, "I follow Luther," or "I follow Wesley." Luther and Wesley were fine men who would no doubt be horrified to have a schism in the church named for them or ascribed to them.

[hopespringseternal]

I see nothing to disagree with in the linked post.

My point is that Christ was not praying for the spiritual kingdom, but the physical manifestation of it.