Spurgeon's View of the MILLENNIUM

Pilgrim Pub. ^ | MARK A. MCNEIL

[JesseShurun]

And Ruth needed her kinsman redeemer on top of it.

[RnMomof7]

Not exactly correct. The women could convert, the men never. It looks like the Lord has laid a parallel between David and Jesus that no man, writing uninspired text, would ever have thought of.

Couldn't or wouldn't??

[JesseShurun]

Matthew's not the dolt some might like to think and the Jews of that time never voiced an objection, only the unlearned ones today who want to use it on unlearned Christians of today.

[theAmbassador]

One of the reasons why I spent two posts denouncing full-preterism is because I want to go on record that amills don’t coddle full-preterists. We regard them as scoffers.

I'll have to go back and read your posts. I'll say that full Preterism and also PostMillennialism present a fairly dangerous heresy in the Reformed Church. Though, I'm not sure how many full Preterists there are among our Reformed churches, PostMillennialism does have a large following. And, sadly, it leaves their followers ill prepared for the tribulation struggles which we will face in this world.

[ksen]

This is kind of off topic but can you recommend a good translation/version of the Tanakh? I have a JPS version but I don't think that one is very good.

Thanks.

[ksen]

My info on the conversion is from the Stone Edition Tanach, Book of Ruth.

Whoops, just saw this.

[JesseShurun]

The Stone Edition is available online from major bookstores. I think even Amazon can refer you to a dealer. I like it as it has the Hebrew opposite the English so you can read both at the same time and decide for yourself if the translation is correct. You're welcome.

[theAmbassador]

Of course, PreMillennialism does have problems as well. These enemies of the Lord will masquerade as believers in this glorious kingdom reign of Christ on this earth. They are double minded and unstable in all their ways. As the Psalter puts it, "because Thy statutes are despised, with overwhelming grief I weep." So much for this "glorious" kingdom.

There will be no vision of God in the face of Jesus Christ in this kingdom. Still only in a glass darkly.

For these reasons, and more, we Reformed Amillennialists don't have any excitement about the possibility that we might be wrong. We would still be groaning with all of creation, as we do today, waiting for the redemption of our bodies and the whole world. (Rom 8:22-23) We would still "cry out day and night to Him" for divine vengeance against those who have slaughtered us. (Luke 18:7, Rom 8:36)

Of course, the PreMillennialists tells us that the only reason we wait, for the Lord can reign glorious on earth or heaven, is so that they can have their 1000 years. In orther words, PreMillennialism is all about man, not the Lord. It is "Much ado about nothing!"

What excites us Amillennialists is that when the Lord returns, it will be THE Day of vengeance of our God where He will flood the earth with fire (2 Peter 3:9). Then, we will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of our Father.

[jude24]

Of course, the PreMillennialists tells us that the only reason we wait, for the Lord can reign glorious on earth or heaven, is so that they can have their 1000 years. In orther words, PreMillennialism is all about man, not the Lord. It is "Much ado about nothing!"

That may be the biggest non-sequitor I've ever seen.

[xzins]

So when you hear the same sort of argument used against Jesus, just remind them of their own little problem.

Haa! Thanks for clarifying.

Your next line is excellent. "catching a spiritual condition."

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

You are a partial preterist.. distinguish the difference

FWIW, you are a "Partial Preterist", RnMomof7... that is if you believe that the First Coming did in fact fulfill at least some of the Messianic Prophecies ("Partial Preterism" = "some prophecies fulfilled").

Ergo, as concerns Preterism, ALL "orthodox" Christians are "Partial Preterists" to one degree or another. ALL affirm that SOME Prophecies have been fulfilled, and some are being fulfilled, and some remain to be fulfilled. We are arguing as to the question of which Prophecies have been fulfilled -- but none of us deny the Second Coming (or horrifically back-date the Second Coming, like a massive theological Enron Accounting Fraud, which is what the Hyper-Preterists are in fact doing).

This is why I personally adjudge PreMillenialism and PostMillenialism to be errors of stumbling to the Elect, not precisely a Fatal Heresy.

Charles Spurgeon (PreMillenialist) and RC Sproul (PostMillenialist) have both stumbled in their Eschatology, but I do not believe that their Error of Stumbling was anything so great that we should be concerned for their immortal souls.

Hyper-Preterism, OTOH, is itself a prima facie Fatal Heresy -- or at least a Doctrine of Demons so vile that it irresistibly leads into Fatal Heresy if not recanted.

---

As a point of information, however, I would observe:

• The PreMillenialist Charles Spurgeon singularly failed to identify the fatal error in Hyper-Preterism. He called it "interesting" and "harmless".

• The PostMillenialist RC Sproul has singularly failed to identify the fatal error in Hyper-Preterism, calling it "thought-provoking".

Both of these men, working as they do from errant Esachatologies, were blinded by their Errors to the dangerous Snake in the Garden which is "Hyper-Preterism".

• BY CONTRAST, even the PostMillenialist Loraine Boettner has admitted that while orthodox Presbyterians have a "very strong case" against Hyper-Preterism, in the confessionally-AMILLENIAL orthodox Lutheran church (where the Confession of Amillenialism is a matter of Creedal Church Law) Hyper-Preterists are not even legally entitled to an ecclesial Trial -- Hyper-Preterists are summarily excommunicated, like Muslims or any other essentially Christ-denying Pagan.

Hyper-Preterism advances by deceit.

• To the Post-Millenialist, the Hyper-Preterist appeals to the substance of his heretical eschatology, claiming that he substantially agrees with the PostMillenialist that the Church will inaugurate a "Material Golden Age" on THIS EARTH. And so the PostMillenial RC Sproul listens to the ear-tickling words of the Hyper-Preterist and calls them, "thought-provoking".

• To the Pre-Millenialist, the Hyper-Preterist appeals to the form of his heretical eschatology, claiming that he formaically agrees with the PostMillenialist that the Purpose of Christ's Second Coming is to inaugurate a "Material Golden Age" on THIS EARTH. And so the PreMillenial Charles Spurgeon listens to the ear-tickling words of the Hyper-Preterist and calls them, "interesting" and "harmless".

But the Hyper-Preterist can find no purchase whatsoever in the Soil of Amillenialism. We Amillenialists categorically DENY the Hyper-Preterist (and PostMillenial) vision of a Church-inaugurated "Material Golden Age" on THIS EARTH. And we Amillenialists categorically DENY the Hyper-Preterist (and PreMillenial) vision that the Purpose of Christ's Second Coming is to inaugurate a "Material Golden Age" on THIS EARTH.

The Hyper-Preterist can deceitfully ply his trade with both PostMillenialists and PreMillenialists, by adjusting his language, and altering his presentation. The Hyper-Preterist sorta agrees with the "substance" of PostMillenialism; and he sorta agrees with the "form" of PreMillenialism.

But with the Amillenialist, the Hyper-Preterist enjoys NO COMMON GROUND whatsoever. We do not have "differences" with these fellows like the PreMills and the PostMills; with us Amillenials it is a matter of total, absolute, ferocious and unrelenting Opposition, both in Form and Substance.

Which accounts for the fact that while PreMillenialist and PostMillenialist Creeds may "test" the Teachings of the Hyper-Preterists against their "received confessions", in the confessionally-amillenial orthodox Lutheran creed, Hyper-Preterists are not even entitled to a Church Trial. They are summarily excommunicated -- period.

Hyper-Preterism is the devil's Cobra, in the Garden of Eschatology.
And Amillenialism is God's mongoose.

(While the lesser eschatologies of PostMillenialism and PreMillenialism are, against this snake-ish threat, mere weasels by comparison)

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To the Pre-Millenialist, the Hyper-Preterist appeals to the form of his heretical eschatology, claiming that he formaically agrees with the PostMillenialist PreMillenialist that the Purpose of Christ's Second Coming is to inaugurate a "Material Golden Age" on THIS EARTH. And so the PreMillenial Charles Spurgeon listens to the ear-tickling words of the Hyper-Preterist and calls them, "interesting" and "harmless".

Mea Culpa on the typo.

[xzins]

Rn, unless one happens to be a full preterist, then full preterism is viewed as deviant and unsupportable. You don't have to be an amillennialist to see that full preterism is wrong.

In fact, it's impossible for a fully convinced premillennialist to see it otherwise. How in the world could I say that all prophecy has already been fulfilled? Think about it.

[RnMomof7]

Understood..thanks

[xzins]

Scripture, scripture, scripture....

Christ Reigning on the Earth for 1000 Years = Premillennism

Revelation 5:9-10	9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.	Christians Serving as Kings & PRIESTS who SHALL (FUTURE) reign with Christ on the EARTH
Revelation 20:4-5	4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.	Resurrected saints (along with those in fine linen Rev 19: 8, 14 same as Rev 5:10) REIGN with Christ a THOUSAND YEARS.
Revelation 20:6	6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.	Christians serving as priests reign with Christ a thousand years
Revelation 20:7-9	Revelation 20 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them..	After 1000 years those in Holy City ON EARTH are attacked but enemy is destroyed
Summary	100% Scripture from the Book of Revelation..	Irrefutable 1000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth. Christians serving as priests with Christ for 1000 years ON EARTH. This is the definition of Premillenialism. Anyone who says premillennialism is NOT a valid biblical position is unfair with SCRIPTURE.

[Jerry_M]

Do you really believe that 2488 was a charitable post?

[BlackElk]

I dunno. Looks to me like the raving TRADITIONS of an unauthorized MAN named Spurgeon. Unless, of course, he was a pope and authorized by Christ to contribute to the Magisterium.

[xzins]

You're catholic, right?

What do they believe about the return of Christ? Just curiosity. I really don't know.

[theAmbassador]

Is there any particular part of that post that you object to or is it the entire post?

[Jerry_M]

1. Tone

2. The part about premillenialism being all about man. Most premillenialists I know are vitally interested in the Reign of Christ. They don't view it as "their" 1,000 years, but rather His.