Here's the real paradox steve. If God is in as much control as RnMomof7 seems to think he is, then his control extends to the fact that he has declared all of my actions from the foundation of the earth and in essence controls whether or not I violate his commandments. If he wanted me to not violate his commandments, then he would not allow me to violate any of his commandments. But using Rn's logic, if I then sin, then I am sinning in accordance with "the good pleasure of his will." If I do good it is in accordance with the good pleasure of his will. indeed, if I pick my nose it is in accordance with the good pleasure of his will and anything that happens in the universe occurs only because God has declared it. This makes god the cause of my sin, and in essence makes me innocent of any of my own actions.
Taken to its logical conclusion and not even taken to its logical extreme, I cannot sin because all that I do is in accordance with the "good pleasure of his will." Therefore even if I am sinning, even if I am blaspheming God, it can only be said of me that "I do only those things that please the Father." If I do good, I am acting in accordance with his will. If I do evil I am acting in accordance with his will.
While the paradox is solved using this logic, it makes God the author of sin and it makes God pleased with sin.
The bible is filled with references about how God is disappointed with the actions of men. If men were only doing those things that were in accordance with the "good pleasure" of his will, then God could no more be disappointed in Hitler than he would be disappointed in Saint Peter, as every one of their actions were declared by God according to the Good pleasure of His will.
Of course neither of us believes that, but the logical extension of the Calvinist interpretation of the sovereignty of God and the lack of sovereingty of man makes the conclusion inescapable.
You use the word "allowed" a lot. Other Calvinists seem to say that the word "allowed" is too weak and that the proper word should be decreed or declared. Well, which one is it?
If God allows man to violate his commandments, are men exercising free will when they do so? And if God allows man to keep his commandments, are men exercising free will when they do so?
Is the sovereingty of God wholly incompatible with the idea that God, exercising his unlimited sovereignty, "allows" man to exercise limited sovereignty and to accept or reject the gospel based on the calling of the Holy spirit rather than forcing man to accept the gospel based upon the compelling of the Holy Spirit?
P-Marlowe. I honestly find it difficult to effectively discuss these issues in this kind of forum. First, there are some issues I find more constructive to TALK about rather than type and to be FACE to FACE rather than with the delays of this format. In part it is because I have always preferred verbal to written communication. I talked a few professors into oral rather than written exams for this reason.
The more comples the topic the more this is the case for me. So visit BR some time and I'll carve out several ideas to hash some of these issues out. Or give me a phone call.
Also, as I read your posts I really can recall many of my thoughts and struggles with similar issues a number of years back when these issues were front burner for me. You, as an attrorney by training, and me, as an engineer by training, want to tie all of the loose ends together and cover all of the what ifs. However, in some areas of theology I have found the need to affirm biblical truth when I can not always reconcile the details. This isn't laziness on my part because I have spent the time exploring and looking for answers. I have learned to embrace my finiteness and blatant non-omniscience.
Hope you don't take this as avoidance and I could have sent this via freep mail to you. However, I don't know how much I can help.
Re the decretive and preceptive will terminology. The terms aren't found as such in the Bible but I believe they are nevertheless biblical distinctions. The greek terms for will are not one diomensional and allow for some range of meaning. I have pointed out verses that explain the difference. For me, appreciating this disctinction removes some of the confusion and are therefore helpful.
A book I found helpful was Decision Making and the Will of God by Gary Friesen and Robin Maxson. Their dioscussion if the distinction between the preceptive and decretive will of God is well presented.
Shalom,
Steve