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To: MarMema; NYer
I see NYer addressed your question, but since you missed my reply to you on another thread, I will recap it.

The kiss obviously was not meant in a sense of total agreement. The kiss didn't suggest carte blanche approval, it merely meant acceptance of those things which are true in the Koran, per Vatican II directives on ecumenism, and John Paul II's many comments in this vein. In other words, his actions have to be interpreted in light of his overall teaching, and that of the Church. You misinterpret JP's actions because you don't understand ecuminism, which is an effort to acknowledge partial truth wherever it is found. JP does this to bring awareness of the truths of the Catholic church to people who do not recognize Christ as God. That is his job.

I think that the burden is on you at this point is to tell me what you think the Holy Father meant when he did this... what his intent was. You argue that it is so obviously scandalous, etc. Okay. You are determined to assert that the pope is so obtuse and out of it that he could perform an act that you and some others around here immediately find abhorrent, one which gives aid and comfort to the enemy, and demoralizes the faithful, etc....that he could perform this and not see what you see so clearly? The choices are few at this point, as the inner logic of your claim confines you: either he was so dense that these factors never entered his mind, or he knew full well the scandal it would bring about, and did it anyway, or he is a dupe of the liberals, or one himself, determined to corrupt and betray the Church.

You say it is such a terrible thing, so tell me what you think was going through his mind when he did it?

100 posted on 09/01/2002 3:47:23 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333; NYer
Actually my point was about proselytizing, not about the kissing of the Koran. But I guess I would find it blasphemous since the muslims deny Christ five or more times each day by bowing toward Mecca and chanting "God has no son".

That said, in the Orthodox church we don't take such a legalistic view of things and see God as loving and patient with us. I certainly am the worst of sinners and if I don't see myself that way I need to, and so I don't think God is going to punish JP2 for all eternity for kissing the Koran or anything close. Just to be clear, lots of us are blasphemous at times and I have been so.

It sounded from the website I visted as if JP2 was uncertain what to do and so tried to make a gesture of respect and charity. Caught off guard, as we all are at times.

A far greater travesty is that of exalting oneself, at least in our view. I guess you got that idea from my previous posts, though. LOL. It seems to me that what we have are clear differences in our expectations for leadership in the churches we love.

Here is an example of someone I feel tremendous love, gratitude, and respect for, from the EO church. This man right next to the young Russian boy in chechnya who was told to give up his cross and join the muslims and had his cut off for refusing.

What confuses me is how you can see JP2 as so wondrous when he has done nothing to compare to the lives of these two examples.

119 posted on 09/02/2002 12:32:38 AM PDT by MarMema
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