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To: St.Chuck
You hold on to Ecclesia Dei as though it were Sacred Scripture. But it cannot undo, and did not undo, Canon Law, which is also the Pope's word. And these canons provide that a State of Necessity can void an excommunication. These were clearly the canons Archbishop Lefebvre knew exonerated him. But even if they did not exist, the Doctors of the Church themselves have taught that a command to harm the Church is unlawful and must not be obeyed, even if the command were given by a pope.

SSPX is virtually the memory of the Catholic Church. It is Catholicism as it had always been practiced before the post-conciliar debacle. Its Masses and devotions and teachings are what the Church has always prayed and taught. Nor does it reject this Pope. In fact, it prays for him at every Mass, though it would openly deny he has any authority to oppose traditional Catholicism. This is because his authority exists only to GUARD the traditional faith, not to undermine or destroy it.

There are some on this thread who believe the Pope himself decides what is tradition. Such a notion is an absurdity and would deny tradition its own objective content. Tradition is what is passed on, not what is invented. It is what guarantees the validity of the deposit of faith. It is precisely because such truths are handed down UNCHANGED from apostolic times to our own that we affirm them. If they may be altered, then the whole of the deposit would be placed in doubt. Yet tradition itself is what this modernist Pope and his appointees are now actively dismantling.

Here is what the papal oath of office says:

I VOW TO CHANGE NOTHING OF THE RECEIVED TRADITION, AND NOTHING THEREOF I HAVE FOUND BEFORE ME GUARDED BY MY GOD-PLEASING PREDECESSORS, TO ENCROACH UPON, TO ALTER, OR TO PERMIT ANY INNOVATION THEREIN.

And the oath closes with this powerful avowal:

ACCORDINGLY, WITHOUT EXCLUSION, WE SUBJECT TO SEVEREST EXCOMMUNICATION ANYONE--BE IT OURSELVES OR BE IT ANOTHER--WHO WOULD DARE TO UNDERTAKE ANYTHING NEW IN CONTRADICTION TO THIS CONSTITUTED EVANGELIC TRADITION AND THE PURITY OF THE ORTHODOX FAITH AND THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, OR WOULD SEEK TO CHANGE ANYTHING BY HIS OPPOSING EFFORTS, OR WOULD AGREE WITH THOSE WHO UNDERTAKE SUCH A BLASPHEMOUS VENTURE.

If the Pope himself had the power to determine what tradition is, would he be obliged to take such an oath? Yet this Pope acts as if he may violate it at whim--as he did most flagrantly at Assisi--and he does nothing to check those who continue to attack the very traditions he is obliged under pain of excommunication to protect. In fact, these ecclesiastical forces are imposing upon the people what is tantamount to a totally new religion, replete with its own new Mass, its protestantized culture and its own set of newly-minted doctrines.

The recent declaration of the American bishops on our relations with the Jews is only the latest test for this papacy. If Rome either ignores or supports this heretical declaration, it will make utterly clear that John Paul II does not intend to reject apostasy or oppose the forces which oppose the Catholic Faith, as he is bound by the papal oath to do.


25 posted on 08/15/2002 6:03:01 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
You hold on to Ecclesia Dei as though it were Sacred Scripture.

You ignore it as if it didn't exist.

But it cannot undo, and did not undo, Canon Law, which is also the Pope's word. And these canons provide that a State of Necessity can void an excommunication. These were clearly the canons Archbishop Lefebvre knew exonerated him.

Lefebvre was mistaken. It has been shown to you on numerous occaisions how he was mistaken.Your unacceptance of the Church's position can only be attributed to.....well, I don't know the cause. It's very sad though. Your constant repition of your private interpretation of canon law will not change the facts.

But even if they did not exist, the Doctors of the Church themselves have taught that a command to harm the Church is unlawful and must not be obeyed, even if the command were given by a pope.

Nothing the pope has done concerning Lefebvre has been harmful to the church. On the contrary, he acted to protect the primacy of Rome, and the salvation of individual souls.

SSPX is virtually the memory of the Catholic Church. It is Catholicism as it had always been practiced before the post-conciliar debacle. Its Masses and devotions and teachings are what the Church has always prayed and taught. Nor does it reject this Pope. In fact, it prays for him at every Mass....

OK, you point that out every day. I'm glad. He needs all the prayers he can get.

Yet tradition itself is what this modernist Pope and his appointees are now actively dismantling.

Apparantly the prayers the SSPX are saying for the pope are going unheard.

as he did most flagrantly at Assisi

Ah - the Assissi battle cry. ( Yawn )

The recent declaration of the American bishops on our relations with the Jews is only the latest test for this papacy. If Rome either ignores or supports this heretical declaration, it will make utterly clear that John Paul II does not intend to reject apostasy or oppose the forces which oppose the Catholic Faith, as he is bound by the papal oath to do.

I would have thought that it was utterly clear to you already. I doubt that the pope will have anything to say about some obscure committee's ( to you it's all the American bishops)in the hinterland of the Church's frontier, making some meaningless, feel good statement. I suggest you ignore it. I suggest the SSPX continue it's extraorinary efforts in providing missions to convert Jews to Catholicism. You all can continue to hand out Catholic tracts outside synagogues. Defy the pope..er..committee.

Have a blessed Feast of the Assumption.

26 posted on 08/15/2002 8:16:23 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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