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To: P-Marlowe
Will it do any good to reply to you? Shall I try once again?

In your #441 you give the moderator a huge reading assignment, then play the bigotry card (compare #438 and #439), and the censorship card. In my opinion, that is not a good way to address the moderator.

We were allies, maybe uneasy allies, on the Calvinist threads months ago, addressing their misbehavior and trying to understand where it came from. I made my points with them, and when the problems with a certain FReeper's emotional abuse seemed to be getting the attention they needed, I went to other threads and gave non-FR activities more of the time they deserve, but of course the Calvinists always show up and try to dominate the discussion, trying to make each thread a Calvinist anti-Arminian or anti-Catholic or anti-LDS thread. It took me a long time, until this thread in fact, to lump you in with the aggressive Calvinists. Here on this thread I can't tell the difference between the bashing-by-Marlowe and the bashing-by-Calvinists.

This thread was a Catholic thread. JMJ333 started it, and then flagged me to it with a claim that Latter-Day Saints deny the Triune God. I responded, and to her credit, she moderated her statement to one of differences rather than denial of God. Then you guys flocked in, changed the subject, and hijacked the thread. Somebody, perhaps drstevej, is tracking my posts. See #34, where he posted and flagged you. It is the Calvinists that are coming after me, not the other way around, although I should pay them a visit now and then so they won't claim they drove me off.

Suppose you were a conservative female or Jew or African-American on a thread bashing conservative women leaders or Jewish leaders or Black leaders on a forum that tolerated that, like the bashing on this thread seems to be tolerated by the management here. How would you get it to stop?

You seek to put us in a no-win situation (you have to admit that) and I am not buying any of it. You are not telling the truth about the LDS Church or its leaders. Your manner of "coming to the truth" will not get you where you say you are trying to go.

There is no place for this kind of behavior in heaven. How is it that you think this kind of behavior will lead anyone to the truth about anything?

For us, it is like trying to describe a peaceful meadow in the midst of a raging storm, or like talking about spiritual things to natural men. You guys are like a storm that never blows over, so we will deal with the situation with the means we have available to us. But know this: the Master will come again, and He will in effect say, "Peace, be still", and there will be no place for the behavior that you and the aggressive Calvinists love, and trust, and rely on so much.

443 posted on 08/19/2002 2:40:05 AM PDT by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain; P-Marlowe; Polycarp; xzins; JMJ333; Revelation 911
***White Mountain: It took me a long time, until this thread in fact, to lump you in with the aggressive Calvinists. Here on this thread I can't tell the difference between the bashing-by-Marlowe and the bashing-by-Calvinists.***

Find a Freeper Arminian or Catholic who will support your accusation that I bash people and make personal attacks.

Xzins and Rev or Polycarp and JMJ are welcome to cite any examples of my "bad behavior."


***White Mountain: Somebody, perhaps drstevej, is tracking my posts. See #34, where he posted and flagged you.***

Since when was reading posts and pinging others unusual for Free Republic? You sound a bit paranoid in this comment.


445 posted on 08/19/2002 3:10:18 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: White Mountain; xzins; drstevej; Wrigley; CubicleGuy; RnMomof7
You are not telling the truth about the LDS Church or its leaders.

I merely quote your leaders. The ammunition for this debate was provided by ressornu who posted about 10 pages of quotes from your "leaders." If your leaders didn't want to be criticized for these comments then they shouldn't have published their thoughts. And if you don't want to be criticized for what you think, then you shouldn't post your thoughts on FR.

Frankly WM I think you are a bit of a hypocrite. You feel free to criticize Calvinism and to attack those who post their beliefs on the subject. You nod in agreement when the discussion turns to Calvin's personal flaws, not the least of which was his complicity in the death of Servetus. Yet you cry foul whenever someone qeustions the leaders of your church.

Hey for Billy Graham, the Pope, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and every other church leader who makes public pronouncements it is open season on FR. But no one better say a single bad thing about one of the leaders of the LDS Church or challenge the basis for their doctrines or you are an Anti-Mormon bigot.

If the LDS Chruch is true, then one would think that it could stand up to its critics. If the LDS Church is true, then you should have all the answers>

When I was a young LDS I was taught that none of the other "Chrsitian" churches had the answers and that the LDS Chruch was the ONLY chruch that had all the answers to all the questions. I believed that. Perhaps that is why I was able to see light and realize that the LDS Church dind NOT have all the answers. In fact, as this thread shows, the LDS have more questions than answers.

I was literally shocked to my core when I discovered some of the statements of the leaders of the LDS Chruch which have been posted here. Well I think a little light shining on what these people had to say is in order. If you can defend it, then that is great. If you can't defend it, then tell us it is indefensible.

If you don't want to listen to criticism of your church, then perhaps you should stop chiming in on the Calvinism threads. The true Arminians can get along just fine without your input. You constantly post your LDS "Scriptures" on the Calvinism and Catholic threads and then give your testimony that Joseph Smith is a true prophet and that the Book of mormon is true, etc. Well, if you are going to post these opinions, then those who read your statements ought to be free to call them into question.

So if you have any real answers to the questions that I and others have posed. If you have any response to the information that has been posted, I'd like to see it. But don't just leave a "testimony bomb" on the thread and expect that people are not going to challenge it. If you think Joseph Smith is a true prophet, then prove it. If you think the book of Mormon is true, then prove it. If you think that the Book of Moses is true, then show us the manuscripts that Jospeh Smith used for that translation and let us judge it objectively.

Is that too much to ask?

451 posted on 08/19/2002 6:45:15 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: White Mountain; P-Marlowe; drstevej
We were allies, maybe uneasy allies, on the Calvinist threads months ago, addressing their misbehavior and trying to understand where it came from. I made my points with them, and when the problems with a certain FReeper's emotional abuse seemed to be getting the attention they needed, I went to other threads and gave non-FR activities more of the time they deserve, but of course the Calvinists always show up and try to dominate the discussion, trying to make each thread a Calvinist anti-Arminian or anti-Catholic or anti-LDS thread. It took me a long time, until this thread in fact, to lump you in with the aggressive Calvinists. Here on this thread I can't tell the difference between the bashing-by-Marlowe and the bashing-by-Calvinists.

WM you constantly injected your anti Calvinsit opinion into Arminian/Calvinist threads. You were for the most part just treated as another poster with an opinion. The Calvinists did not request that you be banned or your posts pulled

On this thread Arminians and Calvinists have posted from the same viewpoint..

I do not think that eithor has been crude or rude or abusive..they simply do not agree with your doctrine. You were flagged seveal times for your input in the discussion.

Your attempt to have this thread pulled speaks volumes .....

453 posted on 08/19/2002 8:33:59 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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