Photo Review: Ecumenical 'Event' At Assisi

Diocese Report ^

[narses]

	Pope John Paul II (C) gathers with other religious leaders for a prayer in St. Francis Basilica January 24, 2002. Leaders of world's religions, from Christians to Muslims, from Buddhists to animists, met in Assisi Italy on Thursday to blow against the winds of war and pledge never again to use God's name to justify violence. REUTERS/Paolo Cocco	Geshe Tashi Tsering, representing Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, delivers his speech during the Day of Prayer for Peace in the World ceremony in the square of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)
	Representatives of different religions light candles during their daylong retreat to pray for peace in front of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy as Pope John Paul II sits in the background Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined the pontiff on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)	Pope John Paul II, left, looks down as Jewish representatives carrying candles walk past Pope John Paul II, left, during a celebration for peace in front of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)
	Patriarch Bartholomew I, spiritual head of the world's Orthodox Christians, Pope John Paul II, and Anglican Bishop Richard Garrard, from left, pray in Assisi, Italy's St. Francis lower basilica, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Representatives of the world's religionsjoin the pontiff to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Plinio Lepri)	Buddhists pray inside Assisi's Franciscan convent, in central Italy, during a day of prayer for peace in the world, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Crocchioni, POOL)

[sitetest]

Dear Land of the Irish,

"I kind of see your your point, if I look at it in a New World Order attitude, i.e. a kinder, gentler society."

Thanks, I think. ;-)

"However, I cannot view it in the same light when I recall the millions of martyrs, who gave their lives rather than acknowledge false religions."

What do you mean, they didn't acknowledge false religions? Of course they did. And they proposed Catholicism against them. Nonetheless, when Catholics had little power, we did not tear down the shrines to the gods. We refused to bow to them. And many Catholics were killed.

I doubt that any of these folks would have come to Assisi if they'd have had any inkling that they would be targeted for conversion. Thus, they would have never come into contact with him, they would have never heard his words firsthand. Frankly, I think it was a good thing that these folks were in the presence of the Holy Father and were exposed to him.

Sometimes you gotta give a little to get a little. Or a lot.

sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Land of the Irish,

By the way, you should try Catholicguy's link. Here is a critical point made therein:

"As Fr. Morelli notes, the Pope has never said, 'Pray to your false god', but 'Pray as best as you can' in following your conscience which can always be further illuminated by the true God. Fr. Morselli makes an excellent point in noting that 'the invitation to unbelievers to pray is NOT a formal participation in an act of false religion, but it is a formal invitation to be religious, to follow natural law.' Moreover, as all good missionaries know, 'the first step to conversion is the observance of natural law.'"

sitetest

[Land of the Irish]

What do you mean, they didn't acknowledge false religions? Of course they did.

I agree with you; the martyrs' acknowledged the pagans' religions to be false and they gave their lives in doing so for the one, true religion.

[narses]

"...is NOT a formal participation in an act of false religion,..."

What was the ceremony with the candles? Certainly not a Catholic ceremony now, was it?

[Land of the Irish]

I doubt that any of these folks would have come to Assisi if they'd have had any inkling that they would be targeted for conversion.

So why invite them?

[sitetest]

Dear narses,

It's more than a stretch to say that that was an act of false religion.

Especially, from what I could see, the Holy Father just watched. Watching all the supplicants from all over the world offering their words for peace, under the guidance of the Vicar of Christ.

I kinda like that picture.

sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Land of the Irish,

"So why invite them?"

Perhaps to demonstrate that religion is not meant to be an instigation for war.

Perhaps, also, to give personal witness to these folks, himself.

sitetest

[narses]

I sorta see him as the presiding officer. Certainly he ought to be in any prayer service he calls. I also have a very hard time understanding the invitation to pagans to use a Catholic religous house for pagan prayers. Fire worship, animism, voodoo and the like. Is that really a work of evangalism? Could HH not be in error on this call?

[Land of the Irish]

the Holy Father just watched.

Do you realize what you just said? Yes, again, I agree with you.

[narses]

The secular press described it thus:

Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined the pontiff on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence.

I dunno, that sounds to me like a religous act. If it was, was it Catholic?

[sitetest]

Dear narses,

"Could HH not be in error on this call?"

You know that it's important to me to try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Why would I deny that to our Holy Father?

To me, it isn't that close a call.

sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Land of the Irish,

"...the Holy Father just watched."

Ah, a little taken out of context, no? Here is the rest of what I said:

"Watching all the supplicants from all over the world offering their words for peace, under the guidance of the Vicar of Christ."

sitetest

[Domestic Church]

"So why invite them?"

While I think there was a primary prayer focus I suspect the underpinning was global politics and the survival of religion. The UN would like to dump religion in the trash, so would many globalists. Religious rights are on the frontlines these days.

[Land of the Irish]

"Watching all the supplicants from all over the world offering their words for peace, under the guidance of the Vicar of Christ."

I'm sorry, but, IMHO, encouraging "all the supplicants from all over the world offering their words for peace" within their own false religions is not proper guidance by the Vicar of Christ.

[sitetest]

Dear narses,

It had been my understanding that prayers were offered separately in the separate areas provided for each group.

In any event, my own impressions taken from these events were not that all religions are as good as each other, or that all religions, in and of themselves, can lead to salvation.

No, the impressions that I take are that all religions are remarkably inferior to Catholicism.

My impression from this event is that each religion may hold a shard of the truth but only in Catholicism is the fullness of truth found. The symbolism of the Orthodox patriarch and the Anglican bishop sitting on the pope's right and left were, to me, devastatingly striking. What is whole is the Catholic Church. What is nearly whole are the schismatic Orthodox. What is a bit further are the once-Catholic Anglicans. And so on.

My impression is that the small truth within any one of these religions, especially the non-Christian and non-Jewish, needs its fulfillment in Catholicism.

That's how it all struck me. But, hey, that's just me.

In any event, I guess I just trust the pope that he did the right thing. I'm not the intellectual he is. I'm not the theologian he is. I'm not the pastor he is. I'm not the mystic he is. I'm certainly not the Catholic he is. Even in my own feeble mind, I can half-figure my way to understanding this. Why do I think he didn't get the whole way there?

sitetest

[sitetest]

Dear Land of the Irish,

"I'm sorry, but, IMHO, encouraging 'all the supplicants from all over the world offering their words for peace' within their own false religions is not proper guidance by the Vicar of Christ."

Well, that's your opinion. I guess the pope had a different opinion.

sitetest

[Domestic Church]

Those evil men who would stomp out religion from the world would have a harder time of it if all the religions stood together in facing this threat, wouldn't they?

[NYer]

My own conviction is that the unity of the Church is in truth rather than in structure and hierarchy.

Which church? and what do you mean by "truth"?

Teaching is an important part of what we do

By whose authority do you teach? Whose interpretation do you use? Methodist? Presbyterian? Lutheran, and if so which branch?

I apologize for asking so many questions but it is quite confusing to me. Why are there so many protestant churches? Who decides on which interpretation is to be used? How is this decided? What happens when there is disagreement as to interpretation?

My family tells me that my first sentence was phrased in the form of a question.

[drstevej]

What is truth? "Thy Word is truth."

Whose interpretation do you use? A better question is what method of interpretation do I use? The historical grammatical approach much like a strict constructionist interprets the Constitution.

Who decides? Ultimately we are each accountable to God for our beliefs and teachings. In a local assembly the elders are to guard the flock doctrinally. They are accountable to Jesus Christ.

By whose authority do I teach? Teaching is a spiritual gift and also a responsibility of every believer. Authority in teaching is based upon fidelity to His Word, the source of authority.

What happens when there is disagreement as to interpretation? Depends upon the issue and context.

Which church? His universal church is composed of all true believers. The elect of God.

Why are there so many protestant churches? Why not?

[Catholicguy]

That's what the Muslims did as they flew the jets into the Twin Towers. (Of course they were praying to a false god).

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that rather go against the intent of Asissi?