Photo Review: Ecumenical 'Event' At Assisi

Diocese Report ^

[narses]

	Pope John Paul II (C) gathers with other religious leaders for a prayer in St. Francis Basilica January 24, 2002. Leaders of world's religions, from Christians to Muslims, from Buddhists to animists, met in Assisi Italy on Thursday to blow against the winds of war and pledge never again to use God's name to justify violence. REUTERS/Paolo Cocco	Geshe Tashi Tsering, representing Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, delivers his speech during the Day of Prayer for Peace in the World ceremony in the square of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)
	Representatives of different religions light candles during their daylong retreat to pray for peace in front of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy as Pope John Paul II sits in the background Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined the pontiff on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)	Pope John Paul II, left, looks down as Jewish representatives carrying candles walk past Pope John Paul II, left, during a celebration for peace in front of Assisi's Lower Basilica of St. Francis, central Italy, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)
	Patriarch Bartholomew I, spiritual head of the world's Orthodox Christians, Pope John Paul II, and Anglican Bishop Richard Garrard, from left, pray in Assisi, Italy's St. Francis lower basilica, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Representatives of the world's religionsjoin the pontiff to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Plinio Lepri)	Buddhists pray inside Assisi's Franciscan convent, in central Italy, during a day of prayer for peace in the world, Thursday, Jan. 24, 2002. Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence. (AP Photo/Crocchioni, POOL)

[narses]

Ping.

"...and pledge never again to use God's name to justify violence."

Good bye just war theory?

[ultima ratio]

Never mind the Just-War Theory. Goodbye First Commandment.

[Land of the Irish]

Thanks for the ping.

Such sad photos. Whatever happened to Church Militant?

[narses]

We are the Church Militant. We are charged with doing battle for Our Lord. That would be you and me and every Confirmed Catholic the world round. Including those wearing the red hats in these pictures.

[drstevej]

"Imams, patriarchs, monks and rabbis from around the world joined Pope John Paul II on Thursday to pray for peace in a ceremony designed to proclaim that religion must never be used to justify violence."

I'll be watching to see if their prayers were answered and pronouncements were heard and followed. Excuse my skepticism!

[narses]

Maybe there was a translation error. I heard a comic once suggest that they were the "Ten Suggestions".

[narses]

"religion must never be used to justify violence"

And yet doesn't the "Holy" Q'ran divide the world into the Land of Peace and the Land of War? What does Kali stand for, peace? Santeria without a bloody sacrifice? (Vegetarian Voodoo maybe?)

[drstevej]

Were I a Catholic these pictures would drive me nuts!

[narses]

What faith are you, if I may ask?

[drstevej]

***What faith are you, if I may ask? ***

Christian, evangelical protestant.

Currently I am a teaching pastor for a non-denominal protestant church located on the LSU campus.

My doctorate was in Reformation and Post Reformation History and Theology. So I find these threads quite informative.

[narses]

I am impressed. What denomination does your degree reflect, or does it? Said differently, among the protestant Churches, is their one denomination you find yourself most at home in? What are the dogmatic issues that seperate you from the Catholic faith?

[drstevej]

I will respond privately to your questions.

[sinkspur]

Good bye just war theory?

Where in the "just war theory" is God's name used to justify a war?

[sinkspur]

Were I a Catholic these pictures would drive me nuts!

If you were Catholic, you'd be right here with these nutty Catholics you're talking to.

[narses]

St. Augustine (you may recall, he promulgated the Just War theory) quotes the words of the Apostle (Rm. 13:4): "He beareth not the sword in vain: for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil".

[sinkspur]

The principles of the justice of war are commonly held to be: having just cause, being declared by a proper authority, possessing right intention, having a reasonable chance of success, and the end being proportional to the means used.

The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Vol. 4, pp. 334-337.

An atheist can accept the "just war theory", narses. It's a philosophical concept, not necessarily theological.

[sinkspur]

St. Augustine (you may recall, he promulgated the Just War theory)

Where did you get that? I was taught that Aquinas developed the just-war theory.

[NYer]

I will respond privately to your questions.

I was just about to ask the same question as narses. You name has surfaced on many of our religious threads and I, too, have also wondered which church you are affiliated with. It might be enlightening to many of the catholics to learn more about the evangelical protestants. An evangelical church just opened in a former supermarket near my home. Just curious.

[drstevej]

I have no objection. I think one's background is significant in understanding their posts. So...

You ***I was just about to ask the same question as narses.***

Narses***I am impressed. What denomination does your degree reflect, or does it? Said differently, among the protestant Churches, is their one denomination you find yourself most at home in? What are the dogmatic issues that seperate you from the Catholic faith?
***

Adacemically I have degrees from Georgia Tech (Industrial Engineering); Dallas Theological Seminary (ThM) and Westmister Theological Seminary (PhD). Dallas seminary [www.dts.edu] is non-denominational; Westminster [www.wts.edu] is Presbyterian.

Spiritually I was born into a Methodist family. I became a Christian in college and attended a Southern Baptist Church [First Baptist of Atlanta, Dr. Charles Stanley as pastor]. I was discipled by Campus Crusade for Christ and entered Dallas Seminary based upon their commitment to the Scriptures and their doctrinal stance which matched my own. I attended Westminster to study the Reformation at a school that was steeped in the Reformation and also had a high view of scripture.

In 25 plus years of ministry I have been involved with church and teaching ministries. The churches have all been non-denominational with a doctrinal stance akin to Dallas Seminary. Interstingly, as a non-denominational church we attract many Catholics who want Bible teaching. We do not attack Catholicism, rather we teach them the Scriptures and many of them come to faith. This is not to say that all Catholics are not believers, but most of them around here don't have a clue one way or the other.

The dogmatic issues that separate me from the Catholic Church are generally those of the Reformation minus the hostility. I post this to you off line because my purpose is not to bash Catholics or to be embroiled into talking past each other debates.

Narses***How would a conservative Lutheran worldview differ from yours?***

I was a pastor in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. The Missouri Synod Lutherans are probably the most evangelical of Lutheran denominations.

Conservative Lutherans are consubstantiationists and I am not. Conservative Lutherans are pedo-baptists and view it as a regenerating ordinance and I hold to believer's baptism (I prefer immersion but mode is of lesser importance to me than the subjects). Lutherans are hierarchial in ecclesiology and I believe that pastor-elder and bishop are the same office.

Lutheran worship is more high church liturgical whereas I see New Testament worship as less structured (this is a preference not an absolute for me).

My theology is closer to Dallas Seminary than Wetminster yet both school have students from many denominations. I found this a wonderful environment. The churches I have served have attracted people from many spiritual backgrounds who in studying the Bible came to sahre our spiritual convictions.

My own conviction is that the unity of the Church is in truth rather than in structure and hierarchy. I am well aware why Catholics differ on this issue, but that still is my firm conviction.

Modern Methodism has lost its way. I attended Candler School of Theology (Emory University) and it was riddled with liberal theology. The seminaries are the future of a church in many ways.

BTW, I am strongly pro-life with the exception of a pregnancy that clearly threatens the life of the mother. I counsel against abortive measures of birth control. Of the marriages I have performed over 90% are still married in part because I require extensive pre-marital counseling and refuse to do a wedding where biblical principles are violated OR I feel the couple has not got the proper foundation spiritually or emotionally to keep their covenant of marriage. (BTW, I was a singles pastor for 10 years in a church where 1/3 were singles).