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To: MarMema
Well why don't you outline them for me. Better yet, why don't you refute the article with your doctrine. I mean it's easy to come on a thread and spout off about how we make things up and are heretical, but as of yet you haven't offered a shred of debate. I'll make it easy for you by narrowing some of it down, then we can tackle the rest of the article.

Does not the objector consider that Eve was created, or born, without original sin? Why does not this shock him? Would he have been inclined to worship Eve in that first estate of hers? Why, then, Mary?

Have any rebuttal?

3. Does he not believe that St. John Baptist had the grace of God--i.e., was regenerated, even before his birth? What do we believe of Mary, but that grace was given her at a still earlier period? All we say is, that grace was given her from the first moment of her existence.

And you say?

4. We do not say that she did not owe her salvation to the death of her Son. Just the contrary, we say that she, of all mere children of Adam, is in the truest sense the fruit and the purchase of His Passion. He has done for her more than for anyone else. To others He gives grace and regeneration at a point in their earthly existence; to her, from the very beginning.

Your objections?

5. We do not make her nature different from others. Though, as St. Austin says, we do not like to name her in the same breath with mention of sin, yet, certainly she would have been a frail being, like Eve, without the grace of God. A more abundant gift of grace made her what she was from the first. It was not her nature which secured her perseverance, but the excess of grace which hindered Nature acting as Nature ever will act. There is no difference in kind between her and us, though an inconceivable difference in degree. She and we are both simply saved by the grace of Christ.

....?

Thus, sincerely speaking, I really do not see what the difficulty is, and should like it set down distinctly in words. I will add that the above statement is no private statement of my own. I never heard of any Catholic who ever had any other view. I never heard of any other put forth by anyone.

18 posted on 08/06/2002 12:54:33 PM PDT by JMJ333
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The last paragraph should have been italicized as well.
19 posted on 08/06/2002 12:56:11 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
Thus, sincerely speaking, I really do not see what the difficulty is, and should like it set down distinctly in words.

And therein lies the problem with the westernization of Christianity.

24 posted on 08/06/2002 3:36:45 PM PDT by MarMema
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