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What is a church made up of? Is it Christ alone? Or is it a group of people? In your case and in Illbay's case it's that and a bunch of opinions of men that you want me to believe over the revealed word of God who teaches me Himself.

I can't speak for Illbay, but Christ's Church is made up of Him as the Head and we who are His covenant family. I don't know what you consider to be the revealed word of God, but we consider Christ to be the revealed word of God. If you mean the Old Testament then you received that from the religion of Israel - if you mean the New Testament then you received that from that horrible religion which is the Catholic Church.

You both want me to embrace the traditions of men and leave the traditions of God.

I don't think I've ever asked you or anyone else to embrace the traditions of men - but I would ask you to embrace Christ on His terms and not yours!

You both would have me throw out the revealed and holy Word...

No - I would have you know the Holy Word...

You both want me to be in awe of your big edifaces and your wealth.

The Catholic Church may be wealthy in your country, but in mine She has only been "legal" for about 150 years because men thought that they could have God for their Father without His bride as their Mother. I would rather you keep your awe for God and the magnitude of His love for YOU - that love which is prepared to go to the length of becoming present under the appearance of bread and wine so that you may eat His flesh, drink His blood and receive his very own life and nature in you.

You want to bring a pantheon of semi-deities of gods and goddesses before me and have me bow down to them, kiss their rings in some instances.

Can't do that - it would be breaking the first Commandment.

All this idea of religion is manmade.

Illbay's may be, but the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ - He said "On this rock I will build my CHURCH..." He did not say "In this book that fell out of Heaven unto thy ungrateful lap will I reveal myself to thee individually and personally in egotistcal isolation from all thy siblings..." - never wrote a word as far as I know.

He said all he wanted was the tabernacle not made with human hands for His abode.

You are quite right on this one - he wants your tabernacle to be baptised so He can tabernacle in you and make you a new creation in covenant with Him.

Pax