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It is God's will that all men be drawn to the Cross (Jn.12:32) Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And so? Does one contradict the other?

When did Christ say the first and then the second statement?

Do you not think that after Christ finished His work on the Cross, the Father now drew 'all men to Him'

Finally, let us look at that deadly Calvinist 'proof-text'

In that same chapter Christ also says,

But I said unto you, that ye also have seen me and believe not,(vs.35) And this is the will that of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him on the last day (vs.39)

After that, in vs 45 Christ states

It is written in the prophets, and they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father cometh unto me

And again,

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him

Not understanding the coming death, burial, and Resurrection, it had to be revealed to them by the Father (Matt.16:17).

It was, however, the Father's will that all come to believe on Christ, but they would not and thus they were not 'drawn' even though they 'saw' and 'heard'

Nowhere in that chapter is 'unconditional election' being taught. Vs.40 makes it very clear that everyone who saw Christ, and believed would have everlasting life.

The error of the Calvinists on John 6:44 is two-fold. First, and foremost is the misapplication of a verse with a decidedly Jewish context as a doctrinal statement on salvation in this age. And secondly, in a spiritual sense, there is a the fallacy of making the drawing of God irresistable and equating it with salvation....It seems to have been forgotten by Calvinists that in John 6:44 it is the Father who draws but in John 12:32 it is Christ who draws. No longer would some men be drawn to him by the Father, but Jesus Christ himself would draw all men to himself. (The Other Side of Calvinism, Vance, p.511) Dec were all men without exception saved on Calvery? Does all mean all?

No, all sins were paid for (without exception)

Now, the Lord Jesus Christ holds the keys to death and hell and salvation is found in Him.

Thus, the Calvinists have a weird Kantian view of reality.

If someone is not saved it is not because the gift is not real or incomplete, but because they rejected it.

The Calvinists think that if the gift is rejected, it becomes defective.

Or does the just God demand double payment for the sins of man?

No double-payment, if you reject the free offer of grace, you stand on your own 'merits'.

The issue of 'double jeropady' is an interesting one. It can be argued that at the Great White Throne judgement sins will not be brought up since they were paid for!

What will be brought up are your 'good works' and they will fall short of the Righteousness to come into the presence of a Holy God (Isa.64:6)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God , and the books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works And the sea gave up the dead which were in it and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged every man according to their works....and whosoever was not found written in the book of of life was cast into the lake of fire. (vs.15)

Nowhere is sin mentioned as the final critera at the last judgement, works are.

That is why religious people are harder to win then others because they think their works are going to save them (God will not send me to hell, after all, I am not that bad).

Are you now happier being a 'Calvinist' then you were as a Weslyian? You do not seem to be! (Phil.4:4)

The issue of 'double jeropady' is an interesting one. It can be argued that at the Great White Throne judgement sins will not be brought up since they were paid for! What will be brought up are your 'good works' and they will fall short of the Righteousness to come into the presence of a Holy God (Isa.64:6) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God , and the books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works And the sea gave up the dead which were in it and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged every man according to their works....and whosoever was not found written in the book of of life was cast into the lake of fire. (vs.15) Nowhere is sin mentioned as the final critera at the last judgement, works are.

Good material for thought. It'll give me something new to consider. Thanks.

At this point, I no longer want to hear of verses that appear to support your position. Deal with the logical consequences

Above are the words of Don't Mess With Texas. Apparently, he opposes using the bible to respond to him.

Can any of you recommend a book to me that has more authority than the bible? It must be some book on logic that he/she owns. Any of you know the title of the book he owns that outweighs the Bible?

Sincerely,

xzins

Galatians 3:13-14 ..... "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' -- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Calvinists would say that we receive faith through the Spirit; God's Word says we receive the Spirit through faith! Nowhere in the Word of God does it teach that the Holy Spirit directly, miraculously, and irresistibly opens and enters the hearts of unbelieving and unrepentant sinners and regenerates them against their will.