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To: xzins
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

As Luther note John is not speaking here of any work of man, great or small, but of the actual renewal and transformation of the old man, who is a son of the devil, into the new man that is the son of God. In this man is simply passive (as the term is used): he does nothing but the whole of him becomes something. John is speakingof this becoming: He says that we become the sons of God, by a power divinely given to us not by any power of free will inherent in us

     Jhn 1:13   Which were born, not of blood,

nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

read it xzins..not mans will Gods will...I know that Arminians do not like that but here it is...

67 posted on 07/27/2002 5:32:48 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; xzins
I have one question. Does God give the elect the power to believe? When God's grace gives a man faith, who does the believing, the man given the grace and power to believe, or God?

The honest answer to this question is either:

"God does the believing," or "the man does the believing."

Any other answer is simply a dishonest attempt to avoid the truth.

Hank

69 posted on 07/27/2002 7:25:59 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: RnMomof7; Hank Kerchief; fortheDeclaration; Revelation 911; The Grammarian; P-Marlowe
born of the will of God

I'm not real sure what your point is here, Rn. When someone believes they're born again. Regeneration at that point is the work of God. Where's the disagreement?

Do you hear someone saying that the regeneration is not the work of God? Once the person fulfills the covenant, i.e., he/she believes, that is the go ahead sign for God to do the regeneration work. What could be simpler?

I don't mean to offend any Lutheran brethren, but Luther is not someone I'd ever use. He has far too much baggage.

72 posted on 07/27/2002 9:51:04 PM PDT by xzins
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To: RnMomof7; xzins
Who ever denied it was God's will? It is God's will that none perish!(2Pet.3:9)

It is God's will that all men be drawn to the Cross (Jn.12:32)

Because it is God's will, God provided the gift of salvation through grace (Eph.2:8-9)

Arminius or Wesley never denied that salvation was always in response, in obedience to God's will (1Jn.3:23)

Thus far Mr. Wesley agrees with Arminius, because he thinks that illustrious divine agreed thus far with the Scriptures, and all the early fathers of the Church. But if Arminius, (as the author of Pietas Oxoniensis affirms, in his letter to Dr. Adams,) "denied, that man's nature is totally corrupt; and asserted, that he hath still* a freedom of will to turn to God, but not without the assistance of grace," Mr. Wesley is no Arminian; for he strongly asserts the total fall of man, and constantly maintains that by nature man's will is only free to evil, and that Divine grace must first prevent, and then continually farther him, to make him willing and able to turn to God.

77 posted on 07/28/2002 3:27:43 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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