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To: RnMomof7; fortheDeclaration; winstonchurchill; The Grammarian; Revelation 911
Did Christ die for all men?. Does all mean all of every kind?

Thanks for the real question.

Christ's death was sufficient to cover the sin of all men of all time AND God's desire was that all men be saved.

The terms of the covenant, however, were that men had to believe in order to appropriate the benefit of the sacrifice. The sacrifice was effective for believers only.

To God Believing is not a work of righteousness per Romans 4:5...In this scripture, on the one hand you have "work" and on the other hand you have "belief."

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

51 posted on 07/27/2002 9:31:42 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Where I get lost in the maze is what you really believe happened on Calvery

We agree that Christs sacrifice was sufficent for all..but effective only for the elect (those that believe)

But I believe it was completed on the cross. That at that moment all the elect were saved.

If I take what I think I have heard you say for several days now ,that the work of salvation was not completed on the cross that day, it was only a promise that it could be complete in the future. Could you clarify when and where you believe the salvation of all men occurred?

52 posted on 07/27/2002 10:03:51 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: xzins
We read the Romans text differently xzings I think it is saying that the belief generated by the unsaved man by himself IS a work

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I think we can agree that God has chosen His word to bring new life , and the fatih that follows it

Rom 10:17   So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

But the question is , at least in my mind can a man without the grace of God believe the gospel unto salvation?

1Th 1:5   For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

And the gospel indicated further that there are some that can not hear it to be brought to new life

2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Mat 11:25   At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1Cr 1:18   For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

53 posted on 07/27/2002 10:05:21 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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