Does God force you to believe or can you resist? Irresistible Grace -- Not a Bible Teaching.

According to the Canons of Dordt (Third & Fourth Heads of Doctrine -- Article 11), "But when God accomplishes His good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, He not only causes the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by His Holy Spirit, that they may rightly understand and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit He pervades the inmost recesses of man; He opens the closed and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised; infuses new qualities into the will, which, though heretofore dead, He quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, He renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions."

Article 12 states: "And this is that regeneration so highly extolled in Scripture ... which God works in us without our aid. It is evidently a supernatural work, most powerful, and at the same time most delightful, astonishing, mysterious, and ineffable. All in whose heart God works in this marvelous manner are certainly, infallibly, and effectually regenerated, and do actually believe."

Article 22 of The Belgic Confession states: "We believe that, to attain a true knowledge of this great mystery, the Holy Spirit kindles in our hearts an upright faith, which embraces Jesus Christ with all His merits, appropriates Him, and seeks nothing more besides Him."

John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, writes that God "has given the true knowledge of Himself in an internal manner, by the illumination of His Spirit, without the intervention of any preaching."

Calvinism teaches that those who are not of the elect "cannot believe, even though he hears the external preaching of the Word and perhaps reads it for himself many times!" In the elect, however, "the Holy Spirit works IRRESISTIBLY, regenerating him so that he understands fully that he is a sinner and needs God, and, therefore, wants to be saved and to believe" (Dr. Edwin H. Palmer, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 48).

"Thus, the once dead sinner is drawn to Christ by the inward supernatural call of the Spirit who through regeneration makes him alive and creates within him faith and repentance. The special inward call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those to whom it is made. This special call is not made to all sinners, but it is issued to the elect only! The Spirit is in no way dependent upon their help or cooperation for success in His work of bringing them to Christ. It is for this reason that Calvinists speak of the Spirit's call and of God's grace in saving sinners as being 'efficacious,' 'invincible,' or 'irresistible.' For the grace which the Holy Spirit extends to the elect cannot be thwarted or refused, it never fails to bring them to true faith in Christ!" (Steele & Thomas, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 49).

Is Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace a valid teaching in light of God's Word? Let us again ask some important questions and seek their answer from the inspired Scriptures.

This doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit gives faith to the elect even before they have heard the gospel. Indeed, it maintains one cannot either understand or accept the gospel unless he has first been given faith to do so. Is faith something imposed irresistibly upon the elect, or does it come from hearing and accepting the Word of God?

Romans 10:17 ..... "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." "But many of those who had heard the word believed" (Acts 4:4).

John 20:30-31 ..... "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

John 17:20 ..... "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word." "Send to Joppa, and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household" (Acts 11:13-14).

Acts 18:4, 8 ..... "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. And Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized."

James 1:18, 21 ..... "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth .... Therefore, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls." "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" (I Corinthians 15:1-2).

Romans 1:16 ..... "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

Luke 8:11, 15 ..... (The Parable of the Sower) --- "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. And the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance."

I Corinthians 1:21 ..... "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace teaches that you cannot resist the grace of God, nor can you resist His Spirit. What does the Bible say? (Can you resist the grace of God and can you resist the Holy Spirit?)

Revelation 3:20 ..... "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me." The Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He knocks at the door of your heart, he doesn't kick it down! Man has the choice to hear and open, or to refuse Him entrance.

Matthew 23:37 ..... "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem ... How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

II Timothy 3:8 ..... "And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (resist) the truth." "Thou didst bear with them for many years, and admonished them by Thy Spirit through Thy prophets, yet they would not give ear" (Nehemiah 9:30). "The angel of His presence saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them. But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, and fought against them" (Isaiah 63:9-10).

Acts 7:51 ..... "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did." "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God" (Ephesians 4:30). "Do not quench the Spirit" (I Thessalonians 5:19).

Does God give His Holy Spirit to the elect before they have heard, believed and accepted the gospel (as Calvinism teaches), or does He bestow His Spirit only upon those who have accepted Christ?

John 14:17 ..... Jesus promises to send to His disciples "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him."

John 7:38-39 ..... "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' This He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive."

Acts 2:38 ..... "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." "God has given the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32). Peter says that the Gentiles received the same gift (the Holy Spirit) as the Jews did, "after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 11:17).

Galatians 4:6 ..... "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'"

Ephesians 1:13-14 ..... "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance."

Galatians 3:2 ..... "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

Galatians 3:13-14 ..... "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' -- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Calvinists would say that we receive faith through the Spirit; God's Word says we receive the Spirit through faith! Nowhere in the Word of God does it teach that the Holy Spirit directly, miraculously, and irresistibly opens and enters the hearts of unbelieving and unrepentant sinners and regenerates them against their will.

"The doctrine of the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit in the conversion of man, sometimes referred to as 'special' or 'saving' or 'irresistible' grace; teaching that man is inherently depraved and cannot respond to the gospel without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit; is man's doctrine, not Bible doctrine. If the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit is true, then the logical implication is that the Word of God is insufficient in the conversion of the sinner. If the doctrine of Irresistible Grace is true, then it places the responsibility of salvation entirely upon God and destroys the responsibility of man to act. If Irresistible Grace is truly 'irresistible,' it destroys the 'free moral agency' of man" (David Gibson, Calvin's TULIP Theology).

The bottom of the post that you referenced clearly says "Repent and believe", and since you addressed the post to me I assumed you could only mean me. Perhaps you need to be clearer and more thoughtful in what you write.

I have only been here a short while and I neither want nor expect to be in your in-group but inclusive Christianity that excludes others and makes severe judgments against the state of their spirituality is no Christianity at all. The HS gives understanding as the vessel can receive it, and for you or anyone else to denigrate that understanding instead of trying to lift them up in the Word is in effect blasphemy.

Yes there are times I need to take the log out. That's the only defense you have "I'm bad, but you're worse". As bad as I am I've never heaped the abuse that you have upon others here. The only person that does have a problem with me that I know of, is Polycarp and I only preached the gospel to him because your friend Henrickson cares more about being friends wuth Sinkspur "Sinky" and being on FR than preaching the truth to them. If Polycarp took offense at me, I am at fault. If he took offense at the Word, then good.

The Arminian Modus Operandi; kill the thread by dragging it down when you don't like the direction it is going.

I am hoping that is just a snide remark. Please note that it was one of you Calvinists who pinged the Admin Moderator despite the fact that the Calvinist was the one who was making personal attacks against me and deliberately misrepresenting my positions and accusing me of not loving the God of the Bible. After the "Calvinist pinged the Moderator I simply challenged that Calvinist to let the Moderator decide which poster should be banned or if the Calvinist prefered, hit the abuse button. I also felt that the thread had deteriorated and had run its course and if the thread were pulled, it would certainly be no big loss.

So don't mis-state the evidence and don't misrepresent my position. If there is a modus operandi around here that seems to be it.

BTW I am not now nor have I ever been an Arminian. Arminianism is just as wrong as Calvinism. Arminianism is just as right as Calvinism.

My advice to both of you is to lay off of Corin. Trust me on this one.

The only reason I included him on my post is because I am talking about what he said. I have no interest in talking to him at all. It is nice to know that he does have some kind of special pull. It does make sense as to why I was suspended for a day for nothing when others here directly threaten me and make their various perverted remarks.

If I had wanted to make a big deal about anything, it would have been this sentence:

I will personally celebrate the day JR vaporizes the lot of you. ~ Corin

I might even have a verse or two of scripture....

So don't mis-state the evidence and don't misrepresent my position. If there is a modus operandi around here that seems to be it.

You non-Calvinists sure are the thin skinned variety. You are the one who threatened "Its time this thread disappeared anyway."

BTW I am not now nor have I ever been an Arminian. Arminianism is just as wrong as Calvinism. Arminianism is just as right as Calvinism.

Ahh, the cry of the moral relativist! BTW, the cactus who calls himself a rose is just deceiving himself.

Sometime back, I read an article about two tribes of monkeys in the Amazon. Every day at daylight, they would get up, scratch themselves, eat, and then they would go up into the trees that bordered their territory. Another group of monkeys in the adjacent territory did the same. Once in the trees they hooted insults at each other all day long until it was time to eat and sleep again. This went on day after day, all the days of their lives, a regular simian soap-opera. I suppose it had meaning to the monkeys, I don't know. What do you think?

I am generally quite charitable with Arminians such as yourself. Frankly, however, I am rather exasperated at your constant avoidance of the real issues raised in this discussion.

This is exactly why, as a rule, I pretty much stay out of these discussions with Arminians.

By the way, I've noticed your posting style and that in it you break down the Word of God that makes it seem so simple. This is not easy! But the Gospel really is simple. Only man steps in to make it difficult.

You have wondeful postings. Glad to make your acquaintance.

This went on day after day, all the days of their lives, a regular simian soap-opera. I suppose it had meaning to the monkeys, I don't know. What do you think?

Subtle but not too acid. Bwahhahahhahahah!

Welcome to the family!

Oh I'm already the red-headed stepchild.

We need a punkrocker Christian with spiked multi-colored hair, numerous tatoos of bible scenes, and multiple body piercings. Preferably Arminian. Any recommendations?

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