Does God force you to believe or can you resist? Irresistible Grace -- Not a Bible Teaching.

According to the Canons of Dordt (Third & Fourth Heads of Doctrine -- Article 11), "But when God accomplishes His good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, He not only causes the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by His Holy Spirit, that they may rightly understand and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit He pervades the inmost recesses of man; He opens the closed and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised; infuses new qualities into the will, which, though heretofore dead, He quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, He renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions."

Article 12 states: "And this is that regeneration so highly extolled in Scripture ... which God works in us without our aid. It is evidently a supernatural work, most powerful, and at the same time most delightful, astonishing, mysterious, and ineffable. All in whose heart God works in this marvelous manner are certainly, infallibly, and effectually regenerated, and do actually believe."

Article 22 of The Belgic Confession states: "We believe that, to attain a true knowledge of this great mystery, the Holy Spirit kindles in our hearts an upright faith, which embraces Jesus Christ with all His merits, appropriates Him, and seeks nothing more besides Him."

John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, writes that God "has given the true knowledge of Himself in an internal manner, by the illumination of His Spirit, without the intervention of any preaching."

Calvinism teaches that those who are not of the elect "cannot believe, even though he hears the external preaching of the Word and perhaps reads it for himself many times!" In the elect, however, "the Holy Spirit works IRRESISTIBLY, regenerating him so that he understands fully that he is a sinner and needs God, and, therefore, wants to be saved and to believe" (Dr. Edwin H. Palmer, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 48).

"Thus, the once dead sinner is drawn to Christ by the inward supernatural call of the Spirit who through regeneration makes him alive and creates within him faith and repentance. The special inward call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those to whom it is made. This special call is not made to all sinners, but it is issued to the elect only! The Spirit is in no way dependent upon their help or cooperation for success in His work of bringing them to Christ. It is for this reason that Calvinists speak of the Spirit's call and of God's grace in saving sinners as being 'efficacious,' 'invincible,' or 'irresistible.' For the grace which the Holy Spirit extends to the elect cannot be thwarted or refused, it never fails to bring them to true faith in Christ!" (Steele & Thomas, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 49).

Is Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace a valid teaching in light of God's Word? Let us again ask some important questions and seek their answer from the inspired Scriptures.

This doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit gives faith to the elect even before they have heard the gospel. Indeed, it maintains one cannot either understand or accept the gospel unless he has first been given faith to do so. Is faith something imposed irresistibly upon the elect, or does it come from hearing and accepting the Word of God?

Romans 10:17 ..... "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." "But many of those who had heard the word believed" (Acts 4:4).

John 20:30-31 ..... "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

John 17:20 ..... "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word." "Send to Joppa, and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household" (Acts 11:13-14).

Acts 18:4, 8 ..... "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. And Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized."

James 1:18, 21 ..... "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth .... Therefore, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls." "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" (I Corinthians 15:1-2).

Romans 1:16 ..... "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

Luke 8:11, 15 ..... (The Parable of the Sower) --- "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. And the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance."

I Corinthians 1:21 ..... "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace teaches that you cannot resist the grace of God, nor can you resist His Spirit. What does the Bible say? (Can you resist the grace of God and can you resist the Holy Spirit?)

Revelation 3:20 ..... "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me." The Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He knocks at the door of your heart, he doesn't kick it down! Man has the choice to hear and open, or to refuse Him entrance.

Matthew 23:37 ..... "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem ... How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

II Timothy 3:8 ..... "And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (resist) the truth." "Thou didst bear with them for many years, and admonished them by Thy Spirit through Thy prophets, yet they would not give ear" (Nehemiah 9:30). "The angel of His presence saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them. But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, and fought against them" (Isaiah 63:9-10).

Acts 7:51 ..... "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did." "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God" (Ephesians 4:30). "Do not quench the Spirit" (I Thessalonians 5:19).

Does God give His Holy Spirit to the elect before they have heard, believed and accepted the gospel (as Calvinism teaches), or does He bestow His Spirit only upon those who have accepted Christ?

John 14:17 ..... Jesus promises to send to His disciples "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him."

John 7:38-39 ..... "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' This He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive."

Acts 2:38 ..... "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." "God has given the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32). Peter says that the Gentiles received the same gift (the Holy Spirit) as the Jews did, "after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 11:17).

Galatians 4:6 ..... "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'"

Ephesians 1:13-14 ..... "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance."

Galatians 3:2 ..... "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

Galatians 3:13-14 ..... "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' -- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Calvinists would say that we receive faith through the Spirit; God's Word says we receive the Spirit through faith! Nowhere in the Word of God does it teach that the Holy Spirit directly, miraculously, and irresistibly opens and enters the hearts of unbelieving and unrepentant sinners and regenerates them against their will.

"The doctrine of the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit in the conversion of man, sometimes referred to as 'special' or 'saving' or 'irresistible' grace; teaching that man is inherently depraved and cannot respond to the gospel without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit; is man's doctrine, not Bible doctrine. If the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit is true, then the logical implication is that the Word of God is insufficient in the conversion of the sinner. If the doctrine of Irresistible Grace is true, then it places the responsibility of salvation entirely upon God and destroys the responsibility of man to act. If Irresistible Grace is truly 'irresistible,' it destroys the 'free moral agency' of man" (David Gibson, Calvin's TULIP Theology).

Jesse writes

She told me to repent of something a few days ago. Talking to xzins without her permission I guess. ____________________________________________________
Terry responds

Jesse do you think lying will make you one of the boys?

I have never told you to "Repent and Believe" I know there are others that say that with regularly but I do not. So I went and did a search..and what I discovered is you have imtentionally lied...

Here is that exchange and as you will see I was agreeing with you ..but why let a little thing like truth get in the way lying is much more fun
You have proved you can not be trusted

1st your post to which I responded

#83: Why I am a Calvinist
To: Tantumergo

"A man cannot have salvation, except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church he can have everything except salvation.

And Illbay the Mormon says I can't have it unless I join his temple.

What is a church made up of? Is it Christ alone? Or is it a group of people? In your case and in Illbay's case it's that and a bunch of opinions of men that you want me to believe over the revealed word of God who teaches me Himself. You both want me to embrace the traditions of men and leave the traditions of God. You both would have me throw out the revealed and holy Word for the writings of theologians and prophets who do not fit the strict guidelines for prophets revealed to me by God. You both want me to be in awe of your big edifaces and your wealth. You want to bring a pantheon of semi-deities of gods and goddesses before me and have me bow down to them, kiss their rings in some instances. God has told me what He'll do to me the day that I do, and it's not pretty. Illbay wants me to learn the rules of tithing before he will agree to baptize me. And on and on. All this idea of religion is manmade. You hold it up and it makes you proud as a papa, like you have done it all yourselves, which you have. You thus worship yourselves, not God. He said all he wanted was the tabernacle not made with human hands for His abode. Hint: You will find it in the desert eating bread and Tishbite stew. Shalom my friend.

83 posted on 7/28/02 8:26 PM Eastern by JesseShurun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

Now my post to you . As you see it was a positive post..hey but why bother with truth ?
To: JesseShurun

You are correct !Salvation IS Christ alone..

There are going to be alot of people crying "Lord, Lord ..didn't we do this and that? You know us..

And Jesus will say I NEVER knew you
***She told me to repent of something a few days ago. Talking to xzins without her permission I guess. ***

Salvation by works is not the plan that God laid before the foundation of the earth..His plan was Christ and the cross.....

The gospel went forth

Repent and believe

92 posted on 7/28/02 8:48 PM Eastern by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

,oh good - YOURE the heretic (this week) - (sarcasm grin)-

See my response to him below

You took your cheap shot. Did it make you feel like a man?

I have always been fair with you. I apologized publically if I was wrong or hurtful and this is your response.

I have told you privately that I try to put those things that are intentionally hurtful from my mind when they are forgiven

May I suggest to you that you have alot of spiritual growth to do rev you are a moral midget..and no I will not apologize for that truth

You offer nothing of substance on any threads all you do is come in and throw mud in hopes of shutting down threads..

I feel sorry for you..

Point me to a lie Marlow...where have I lied ? Now you had better come up with something or I will report abuse ..that is slander

How about this:

You are more comforted by the thought that God did not care enough to protect your child than to believe He has a divine plan that includes every single one of us?

The problem Marlowe is you would rather believe what you want to believe. You want to fashion a god for your own liking. You do not like the God of the bible

These are libelous accusations mom. These are deliberate misrepresentations of my own thoughts and postitions AND YOU KNOW IT! So go ahead and ping the Admin Moderator. Have him read all the posts and then let him decide who to ban.

BTW I thought you Calvinists NEVER pushed the abuse button.

You libel me and then when I call you on it you accuse me of Slander. That's rich. Well, its libel Mom. And Truth is an Absolute Defense to it.

The problem Marlowe is you would rather believe what you want to believe. You want to fashion a god for your own liking. You do not like the God of the bible
These are libelous accusations mom. These are deliberate misrepresentations of my own thoughts and postitions AND YOU KNOW IT! So go ahead and ping the Admin Moderator. Have him read all the posts and then let him decide who to ban.

That is a rhetorical comment , an opinion not a lie Marlow and you should know the difference ...if not I will have to take my legal business elsewhere. Show me my lies..

And there are now two Calvinists that push abuse and I am one..xzins convienced me that it is the christian thing to do

I will hit abuse .......so there is no more safety in the trenches here.

You came here looking for a fight ..and when you get one you whine

You do not like the God of the bible

That is a rhetorical comment? No Mom. That is a LIE! And you know it! Don't hide behind the statement that you think it is an opinion. It isn't. If it were an opinion it would have been preceeded with something like, "In my opinion I do not believe that you like the God of the Bible because.....

No, you didn't state it as an opinion, you stated it as a FACT. Now you are playing Clinton in trying to pretend that what you said wasn't what you said. "It all depends on the what the meaning of "Lie" is. Well it was a lie. It was a distortion of my position. It was an accusation and an insult to my faith.

Yes I do know the difference between a rhetorical comment and a lie. I know the difference between an accusation and an opinion. Obviously you don't.

So go ahead and hit the abuse button. Its time this thread disappeared anyway.

You do not use the word trinity do you believe that God the Father was Jesus in the flesh?

This is the part where explaining divine personality gets sticky. Father, Son, Holy Spirit = God. 3 in 1. Holy Spirit is distinct from the Son is distinct from the Father. Their unity makes them one. It is generally considered improper not to uphold the distinction between the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

In that regard, your question about "God the Father being Jesus" becomes sticky in maintaining the distinctiveness of the 3 persons of the Godhead. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." He affirms at the same time both the distinctiveness and the unity.

Separate but equal; 3 in 1; trinity.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.