Posted on 07/25/2002 7:23:40 AM PDT by xzins
Is it more comforting to know that God doesn't care enough to protect and preserve your child? Is it more comforting to know God could care less about you or your future here or your eternity ?
You are working backward barrister..you are working from the result to the cause..
I say we need to look at the cause first..then the result makes sense
The cause of our creation was to glorify and magnify God now and in eternity.
Time was created for man , not man for time...Time (our life spans) were created as a measure to keep order here...not because they have any eternal meaning. You and I have already begun our eternal existance. We are simply living some of it here.
So if man purpose is to enjoy God and glorify him forever..and if time is meaningless to our eternal God...and if our eternity has already begun here ..what is death to God?
When we have our theology center on man we have the why would God do this to me mentality.
If we see God as sovereign and we see He has a master plan and the world is not simply spinning out of His control. We can then see that not one thing that happens is not a part of that plan..every single thing has purpose and meaning. There are no accidents in God.
As believes we can take comfort in the words of Paul Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.
God is Sovereign
I grew up in a Christian family. I attended church twice on Sundays about 90% of the time. I attended a private Christian school and a private Christian college. All my life I learned the Reformed faith. I had my 'saving' moment in high school, when it mostly came all togather. I made my profession of faith before the elders of my church and later before the congregation. I meant it then and I believed I understood what it all meant.
It wasn't until my senior year at Calvin College that it finally all made complete sense. And it came at what was the worst time in my life. One of my roommates was killed in a motorcycle accident. He was a friend I knew from my freshman year and who I lived with for 3 years. We had our disagreements, but we were like brothers.
I had never felt that much spirtual and emotional pain before. But during that whole period, from learning that he died, to meeting with his parents that night, to dealing with our friends. Then thru the funeral and the emotional memorial service we as friends and students held. It was a terrible period. It hit me what a powerful thing it is that God was in control. Through that pain I saw the comfort of my salvation. I saw that in how Matt's parents handled and expressed themselves. I saw it in how friends came through. I saw it in when my parents came up for the funeral, something I didn't know they were going to do. Finally in the sermon another good friend's father gave at the memorial service.
In all of that, I can honestly say what a awesome God we have. At that point, everything was well with my soul.
You see that is what I am talking about right there. If Arminainism is a false gospel, then how is it that so many Calvinists were saved at the preaching of an Arminian? Did these Calvinists accept a false Gospel? If they did, then they were never saved, were they?
So if Arminianism is the Lie of Eden, then why don't you just come out and say that Arminians are not Christians? Why continue to allow them to make a false claim that they are saved, when if fact they, like Eve, are only deceived?
In other words: Put up or Shut up.
I thought those were your words.
I believe it is called a peace that passes all understanding..Phl 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Often when Children are raised in the church the exact moment of their salvation is lost in the years...but there is a moment in time when you suddenly meet God and you know that you know
My son was 7 when he ran into the arms of Christ
He has no conscious memeory of it (I do:>) But two years ago the grace of God so overwhelmed him that he was literally knocked to his knees ..Now as an adult He has the assurance of his faith..He knows that he knows :>)
Again Mom, this is what I have been talking about. Somebody says something and then somebody else rephrases it to mean something wholly different than what that person said. Did I say that God could care less about you? NO! I didn't. Did I ever say that God is not in control? No.
Why don't you just read what I said and if you disagree with what I said, then post your own comment. Please don't rephrase what I said to mean something I didn't say. That is dishonest. That is what is wrong with these threads.
So now that I've caught your attention, why don't you give me a straight answer to my previous question that I have asked you several times:
Since you believe that Arminians can preach people to salvation and that most Calvinists were saved as Arminians and that "it does not matter one bit if you were saved as an Arminian or a Calvinist.." Please. Please. Please. IN YOUR OWN WORDS, Please tell me:
Which purpose of God is being accomplished by all of this bickering?
Mothers always do. ;-)
Hank you ask a marvelous question. Let's see if anyone can answer using the evidence of the bible alone. After all, there is no evidence that he ever repented but he was so beloved of God where is he?
you said
Is it more comforting to know that God wanted your child dead and that it pleased God to kill her, or to know that God simply chose not intervene to save her?
Your bias is in your own words..get the log out marlowe..you came looking for a fight
Your favorite phrase. Hey, why don't you just answer a question instead of attributing evil motives to it? Can you answer this question:
Is it more comforting to know that God wanted your child dead and that it pleased God to kill her, or to know that God simply chose not intervene to save her?
Honestly can you answer it? To me I think the answer is obvious. I take much more comfort thinking that God allowed some drunk to accidentally kill my child and that somehow this will ultimately work out for good than that God actually wanted that drunk to kill my child and that he made it happen according to the good pleasure of his will.
If God is in control the way that some people think he is in control, then it is clear that it pleases God when children are killed by drunk drivers and that God not only permits the accident, but ultimately is the cause of it.
To me God is in control inasmuch as whatever happens has been ordained by God, but not necessarily caused by God. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but it happens all the time, doesn't it? If he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, then does he take pleasure in the death of the godly? And, if he doesn't take pleasure in the death of the wicked or the death of the godly then how can it possibly occur?
It seems to me as of late you have come in looking for a fight (usually with me) .
So excuse me if I find humor in your complaint of bickering a little disingenuous.
I asked you why you were so angry, you chose to deflect. You are very angry with me. You see me as a traitor. So you come a calling.
Marlowe I am not angry with you. I like you and appreciate allot of your threads. I appreciate your spiritual journey. But remember that the journey is not over till it is over, often God has more of Himself to reveal to us in our walk
I am offering you personal peace here. We can disagree on doctrine and even take swipes and still not be enemies.
This discussion of death is a personal one for me. I have buried unsaved parents and aunts and uncles. I have cohort cousins that are dead, and I buried an infant grandson
you ask
Is it more comforting to know that God wanted your child dead and that it pleased God to kill her, or to know that God simply chose not intervenes to save her?
Honestly can you answer it? To me I think the answer is obvious. I take much more comfort thinking that God allowed some drunk to accidentally kill my child and that somehow this will ultimately work out for good than that God actually wanted that drunk to kill my child and that he made it happen according to the good pleasure of his will.
You are more comforted by the thought that God did not care enough to protect your child than to believe He has a divine plan that includes every single one of us?
Ecc 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [that which is] planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Read Job. A man of many troubles. A man quoted by my son as he wept held his grieving wife and dead son in his arms
Job 13:15 though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
Job 14:1 Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.
2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
4 Who can bring a clean [thing] out of an unclean? not one.
5 Seeing his days [are] determined, the number of his months [are] with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
The problem Marlowe is you would rather believe what you want to believe. You want to fashion a god for your own liking. You do not like the God of the bible
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
We believe that Nathan drown because he did not understand the solar cover. He just walked off the patio into the pool thinking he was still on firm ground (He had a pond on his property at home so he knew water ...so the solar cover confused him we believe) the word of God comforts and loves
Psa 37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
The Lord of creation orders all of our steps..He called Nate home that day. It was not a punishment for Nate..or his mom. it was not his moms fault that he wandered out...he had simply come to the end of the days God had numbered for him. Soon that will happen to me. And someday to you
That is not a cruel heartless God. That is the God of creation that cares enough to know every hair on my head.
Marlowe if you want a distant hands off god......you may build one. The God of the Bible is personally involved in our lives ..I am comforted by that
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