Does God force you to believe or can you resist? Irresistible Grace -- Not a Bible Teaching.

http://www.zianet.com/maxey/Tulip6.htm ^ | Al Maxey

[RnMomof7]

I believe one isn't guilty of sin until one commits sin

Is one born with sin?

That is NOT what that sentence says

[xzins]

My estimation of you is also shown in #243. If interpreted with available evidence it would say that (1) x doesn't consider j to be a hardshell. (2) he's does have a level of doubt (low) about j considering him an unbeliever. (3) The tenor of the sentence coupled with his assertion that j is one of the kind ones means he probably gives j the benefit of the doubt.

Yes. You are one of the kind ones.

I do agree that our "arguing" scripture seldom gets anywhere.

[P-Marlowe]

Steve, do you subscribe to the "Arminianism is the Lie of Eden" school of theology? Or do you feel that Arminianism is consistent with Christianity in general.

A lot of the Calvinists on these threads seem to think that Arminianism is the same lie that the led to the fall of Adam. I cannot see how anyone who would believe that could possibly view any Arminian as a Christian since they are believing the most pernicious lie ever told to man rather than the truth. Thus IMHO if Arminianism is the Lie of Eden then NO Arminian could possibly be saved, must less preach others to salvation with that message.

How do you feel on this subject?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

...all knowing One's presence...

Ed Sullivan?

[xzins]

Is one born with sin?

That's what "sin nature" means. Maybe that's wesleyan seminarian talk and you don't know how we view it. In any case, the "sin nature" is something one is born with. It inevitably leads to EVERYONE sinning.

The difference is that we believe that one isn't held accountable for sin until one actually commits a sin. (Like my innate tendency to speed while driving; I'm not guilty IN COURT for the tendency. When I speed, then I'm guilty in court as a law breaker.)

[drstevej]

I have answered this before. I have never called Arminianism the lie of Eden, I think it better fits Mormonism.

I was an Arminian Christian who argued against the doctrines of grace until I became convinced that the Bible affirms total depravity, unconditional election, irresistible grace and perseverance. These convictions came prior to doing a PhD in reformation history in a Calvinistic seminary.

Does that answer youe question.

[P-Marlowe]

Heinlein?

[drstevej]

I honestly fail to see how your 1-2-3 recap in this post matches the original statement, but I don't think further exegesis is warranted.

So, thanks for the compliment #243 and in this post.

[SorenK]

Ed Sullivan?

Madam, you show your age.

Heinlein?

I expected better from an attorney.

[P-Marlowe]

Ok, so if Arminians are Christians and Calvinists are Christians, then what is the big deal? What difference does it make whether or not someone is an Arminian or a Calvinist or neither? Do Calvinists sit closer to Jesus in eternity than Arminians? Is the Gospel when preached by an Arminian less effective than the Gospel when preached by a Calvinist? If God accepts the cry of an Arminian to save him, is he any less saved than a Calvinist that cries out for salvation?

I am being accused of belonging to the Rodney King School of Theology because I honestly believe that discussions about Arminianism and Calvinism really serve no purpose and that instead of insulting each other and challenging each other's salvation, we ought to strive more to just "get along."

It does seem odd to me that you would admit that you became a Christian at the preaching of Arminians yet you now claim to be a committed Calvinist. Are you any more saved now since you decided that the systematic theology of Calvinism is somehow better than the systematic theology of Arminianism? Or was your Arminian salvation sufficient? If it was sufficient, then what difference can it possibly make whether or not you are a Calvinist or an Arminian? Is it worth all this bickering? Is God Glorified by what goes on here?

Just some thoughts.

[P-Marlowe]

Oops. I should have looked at your name a little closer, Mr. Kierkegaard. :-)

[SorenK]

Very good.

Perhaps if the posters on this forum would read some of my writings they would be more concerned with their own individual conscience instead of the conscience of the particular groups.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Is that you, Corin/Ward?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Just couldn't stay away, could ya, Corin?

Say hello to the Little Mermaid for me.

[Revelation 911]

good morning Dr.

Just couldn't stay away, could ya, Corin?

Perhaps ambassawoodapocilypticchickenstickywings ? he has multiple screen personalities as well

[Hank Kerchief]

In case you hadn't noticed Luther is dead.

Excellent observation!

Hank

[Hank Kerchief]

Showing you scripture is a waste of time.

Then don't! Since what you mean by "showing you Scripture," is quoting verses out of context and forcing your own interpretation on them, I would just a soon you "showed me no more."

Satan "showed" Jesus Scripture when tempting Him.

Hank

[Hank Kerchief]

Hank Paul is talking about Adam and Eve...

He is. That would certainly be a surprise to Paul.

Please read the passage again, starting at verse 16, say, and it will become clear to you, the last think Paul was talking about in Romans 1 was Eden. If you have trouble figuring it out, let me, and I will show you from the passage that Paul is talking about mankind. It is really obvious to any honest reader.

Hank

[Hank Kerchief]

Who knows. Many of your brethren who are hardshell consider me an unbeliever. For all I know, you do to. In that case, I guess Hank and I will just be cast out together outside the camp.

That is where our Lord is, and that is where I long to be.

Heb 13:12-13 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Sadly, many would rather have the comfort of tradition and their "church" camp, and are really afraid to stand for the truth. Many who become very shrill in their defense of their, "doctrine," are only afraid to admit they might have been wrong in accepting human teaching.

I never insist that any accept my interpretation of Scripture, because I do not judge another's servant. I am only a man, but I trust in Him who has promised to give wisdom to all those who ask and are willing to follow the truth, no matter how much they don't like it.

I would be honored to serve Him with you outside the camp. I am convinced if Jesus should come today, no organized church would receive Him and most "Christians" would hate His teachings.

Hank

[Hank Kerchief]

Is one born with sin?

Do you believe one is born guilty of sin?

How far back does it go? Is one guilty of sin at conception?

How do you define the world guilt?

Hank