Being fruitful [Evangelicals and contraception]

The Washington Times ^ | July 11, 2002 | Robert Stacy McCain

[Evangelium Vitae]

No one can accuse the Torodes of failing to practice what they preach. Their son Gideon was born almost exactly nine months after their November 2000 wedding.

"We don't waste any time," says Mr. Torode, 26, of South Wayne, Wis. He and his 21-year-old wife are expecting their second child in February.

[ventana]

What about a woman who can't handle a large family, emotionally. Perhaps she has an immature husband who is not really able to husband: to plan, to provide, to secure a life for her and her children. Or, he is someone given to drinking or fooling around. Perhaps he never thinks about the future and lives day to day leaving her to worry about bills, education, the car, etc. Maybe she is a limited person who is not able to multi task and the confusion of an unmanaged household overwhelms her. Or, she may have very demanding personalities in her children, and more would overwhelm her. I talk with my friends about this. Some of us have two, some have four, one has eight but she's married to a doctor and knows no financial worries. Most of us have used some or other form of birth control and we are Catholic, we don't feel good about it but there are reasons. We see the point of birth control being the conduit to many problems, but we see the other problems, too. One friend tried NFP. She said she couldn't keep up with it because her two year old and infant placed such demands on her, not to mention two older active boys, and she was never able to have the daily uniterrupted quiet time necessary to chart and plan. Some how or other she was always interrupted.

My seventeen year old is a fairly faithful Catholic, but when we were discussing NFP he said, "Mom, what's the difference between that and, say, a condom: you are still planning and controlling birth. I call that birth control" That was hard to answer. Just some food for thought. V's wife.

[RnMomof7]

"To suggest that birth control is evil or perverse," Mr. Van Leeuwen wrote, "because it undermines God's sovereignty is to underestimate God's sovereignty and reject our responsibility to serve Him wisely.

Excellent article..I think it demonstrates some of the common ground that Conservative Catholics and Evangellical protestants share .

I am flagging to the non RC's for comment..I would guess there is a diversity of opinion on birthcontrol among us..

[xzins]

The argument is "should we attempt to control the origin of life?" Somehow the answer is: "if it's by mechanical means, then it's wrong." For some reason, counting days, taking temperatures, avoiding ovulation days, etc., is holy, but using a condom to accomplish the same is not holy.

I'm not sure why controlling with one method is acceptable, but controlling with another method is not acceptable. It seems that no matter the method you are attempting to control the "origin of life."

[Uri’el-2012]

MinorityRepublican; RnMomof7

"To suggest that birth control is evil or perverse," Mr. Van Leeuwen wrote, "because it undermines God's sovereignty
is to underestimate God's sovereignty and reject our responsibility to serve Him wisely.

Excellent article..I think it demonstrates some of the common ground that Conservative Catholics and Evangelical
protestants share .

I am flagging to the non RC's for comment..I would guess there is a diversity of opinion on birth control among us..

22 posted on 7/13/02 7:46 AM Mountain by RnMomof7

If a couple wish to worship the God of LEXUS or Range Rover
or cable tv, eating out to fancy restaurants, and vacations in Europe.

instead of Worshiping the One True G-d and they practice either NFP or contraception, it is WRONG.

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character
than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with
great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if
what Paul said was true.

Chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[nicmarlo]

I do not agree that Onan's behavior in Genesis 38 is relevant to the question of is birth control sinful because his sin is twofold: he failed to perform his duty -- in that culture -- of producing an heir for his dead brother. He was motivated to spill his sperm, hence, not produce an heir, so he would become the sole heir of his father's estate. Secondly, he directly disobeyed what God told him to do. Onan's sins, therefore, are greed and disobedience.

I disagree with the arguments using birth control is resisting God's will. We could also make the same arguments about anything else we do: flying to the moon, having a dentist fill our teeth, taking aspirin for a headache, or removing a tumor from a brain. "If God had meant for us to...(fill in the blank)"

As far as many people having many children, I think about that as I would anything else: one must be responsible for what God has given them. Not all people have much wealth, either, but all must prove responsibility for what is in their care, especially children. I think of this parable from the Lord, about what is given and how we are to be responsible with those gifts:

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his ability...So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, "Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' His lord said to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord." Mattthew 25:14-15a;20,21

I do not see where the Bible states that birth control is a sin. What God would have one couple do might differ from what He would have another couple do in an “ideal marriage,” but not doing so does not make it sin. Paul also wrote he believed it was “ideal” that we not marry so we could be more focused and have more time to do the Lord’s work because having a spouse and family is a prime responsibility. But being unmarried might lead one to sin, because of lack of self-control as pertains to sex…so better to marry and have sex than to have sex without marriage and sin.

My understanding of how we are to live is that if the Scriptures clearly condemn a thought or behavior, then it is sin to all (i.e., murder). However, where it is unclear, where there is doubt or ambiguity, then God shall lead us by our conscience and then, if one goes in direct contradiction to his/her conscience, then that individual has sinned. See all of Romans 14, verses 1 - 8 are follow:

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord." Romans 14:1-8.

[Iowegian]

I believe that if it is God's will for you to have a child, you will, no matter what BC you use or lack thereof.

[Mark17]

I'm still undecided on what the Biblical position truly is.

How about, let each person be firmly convinced in their own mind. It is your motive that God is concerned with, not so much what you do, but why you do it.

[RnMomof7]

The argument is "should we attempt to control the origin of life?" Somehow the answer is: "if it's by mechanical means, then it's wrong." For some reason, counting days, taking temperatures, avoiding ovulation days, etc., is holy, but using a condom to accomplish the same is not holy

So you do not think then that God can be fooled then huh? You think he reads the intent of the heart?

[Mark17]

I'm not sure why controlling with one method is acceptable, but controlling with another method is not acceptable. It seems that no matter the method you are attempting to control the "origin of life."

I can see your point. Controlling is controlling, no matter how it is done. Is this what they used to call the rhythm method? If so, it does not work well. My mother had 6 kids using it.

[Iowegian]

I think it is very hypocritical of those who use the NFP method to claim spiritual superiority since it involves controlling or avoiding pregnancy just as surely as the pill does.

[Mark17]

since it involves controlling or avoiding pregnancy just as surely as the pill does.

I keep saying motive, motive, motive.

[jude24]

The question before us is, "Is the use of birth control moral for the Christian?" I think on its face, most of us would oppose the use of abortificants for birth control. So the issue is whether use of condoms, tubal ligations, etc. is acceptable for Christian married couples.

Now, the Catholics and some Protestants would have us believe that, since the ultimate aim of sexual intercourse is reproduction, then anything that prevents that would be sinful.

But the Scriptures indicate otherwise. In Genesis 2:24, it states "For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." For what cause? It is integral to the relationship between man and wife.

Now, if we look in I Corinthians 7, we see marriage encouraged to prevent sexual immorality ("But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.") And the sexual act is commanded to Christian couples ("The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.... Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.")

The Catholic is forced to tell married couples unwilling for financial or other reasons not to bear children to completely abstain. But that is unbiblical -- the act is even commanded of married couples lest they stumble into sexual immorality.

I'm just considering the irony -- a single guy writing to a grandmother about Christian sexuality.

[xzins]

You think he reads the intent of the heart?

God does know the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[RnMomof7]

Sounds like you mom and I danced to the same tune:>)

[RnMomof7]

I'm just considering the irony -- a single guy writing to a grandmother about Christian sexuality.

LOL.....

I do not think sex's sole purpose is procreation...I do not think that is RC teaching eithor , or else all observant Catholics over child bearing age..or those that are unable to have kids for medical reasons would be celebate.....(not on a bet:>)

God made sex fun.. (yea from a Christian grandma) He gave it so that a man and woman could comfort and pleasure each other in times of joy and sadness.

I have told my kids that the best reason to remain pure till you marry is the excitement and joy of new sex is a gift from God to help newly weds bond and compromise and resolve the blending ot two different families and traditions

A fight over a mother in law can be lovingly resolved in each others arms..

If that "newness" has been used up the transition is more difficult

But having said that sex is for love and for consolation and for bonding it is still the ONLY way a child is naturally concieved.

God's design and purpose is 1st and formost procreation. To frustrate THAT purpose is to frustrate the plan of God IMHO...and CAN (not necessarily) reduce sex to a time of self pleasure..

My daughter and her husband have 3 daughters 7,5,3...and they have never used an artifical method....she nursed (a good natural method early on) and they are simply calandar aware

They do not want more children nor do the "plan" more..BUT if God so desires they will let Him be God

I would add this tale of caution....My son and his wife also never used any artifical methods...when a 4th unexpected pregnacy occurred several years after their last they decided to have her tubes tied.

We had a long discussion on it and I gave my best advise to them . It is what what I have told all my kids. None of us know what the future holds....that is a decision that you may later regret>

That baby was Nathan that drown at 17 months.....my beautiful Christian daughter in law cries over that decision now as her arms are empty and the hope of another child has been removed

Sex is a wonderful gift....the best part is opening the package and finding that God has used you for HIS purpose as a co creator with him.....

Grandma:>)

[Mark17]

Sounds like your mom and I danced to the same tune:>)

LOL, yes, that is true. My mother was a good Catholic, so she and my dad used the rhythm method, and had 6 of us. In other words, it did not work.

[ventana]

Silly, it DID work, else she would have had twelve!!! V's wife.

[A.J.Armitage]

My mother was a good Catholic, so she and my dad used the rhythm method, and had 6 of us. In other words, it did not work.

And aren't you glad it failed?

[Mark17]

And aren't you glad it failed?

LOL, well now that you mention it, yes. My mom had 3, and I was just 6, and did not think there would be any more, but 3 more came along. There were 4 years between numbers 3 and 4, so maybe it did work for 4 years, but not indefinitely. I never asked my mom if she wanted 6, but if not, my only point is, that it did not work.

[A.J.Armitage]

And I'd bet #6 is really glad it didn't work.