"Theresa hind sight is 20/20 "
Well yes. But there were moderates whose voices were drowned out. Erasmus had a good plan for moral, clerical and teaching reforms. He hated the mechanical Christianity and the clerical hold that was killing the Church. His plan would be implemented by the educated upper classes. It would take time because it was not extreme. Pope Leo was enthused about it. (It was based on what they called the New Learning.) Before that everybody agreed that there was a need for reform but nobody KNEW how to do it. And there was no money for reform. It is a popular misimpression, even back then, that the papacy was rich. It was not.
Then Luther came along and he despised Erasmus because he was an intellectual. He saw no hope for top down reform, and you know the rest of the story. It is so complex! But it is not like efforts were not being made. It's that everybody on both sides went to such terrible extremes. It became a war of all against all because the only thing everybody had in common was the Catholic faith. Without that common bond society disintegrated.
"Think about it ..do you REALLY think those changes would have occurred?"
I think there was a chance. Erasmus did too, until Luther came along. IMHO no matter how long it took it would have been better than what happened. In the meantime the Lord would forgive the masses for their ignorance and those who had neglected their spiritual welfare would pay an eternal price.
"How long in this multi media age have activist RC folks tried to get a coordinated response to the abuse issue."
Oh I agree! The victims had to resort to the law. Pitiful!! But is schism the answer? Is not having bishops and priests at all the answer? Most of us want them regardless of the pitfalls!!And those who are totally fed up can leave or agitate for change.
"The leaders speak with a sympathetic voice and nothing changes. The voices would have been silenced (that was the time when they burned heretics) or ignored."
Yes BUT BOTH sides were intolerant. When moderates on either side spoke out they risked their lives! Both sides burned heretics and also both sides burned witches. Even today the Wiccans (ugh) are angry about that. And really it just shows how nobody had the kind of rights then that we have now. Who in modern America would say that Wiccans don't have a right to stand in a circle in their black spandex Fruit of the Looms and worship the moon if they want to? They have that right. But back then they were tortured and burned alive. (And how many really were witches?) It was a different time. I am glad I did not live in that era.
"Martin Luther had a revelation he found in scripture. He was moved by the Holy Spirit. As was every one of the men that fought that battle, I really do believe if the reformers had not acted we would still not have direct access to the word of God."
That's a glorious ideal. I have em too. But in my reading I have gotten more realistic. There was one last effort at reunion and both sides were able to agree on the doctrine of justification but talks broke down on the issue of the Real Presence. In my reading I learned That the Church had long before that given up on trying to control access to the bible. The printing press took care of that. This is just my theory, but if the Reformers had been orthodox then there would have been less attempts to control the distribution of the bible. But by that time they were so angry and fed up they lost faith. It was not all their fault by any means.
Then again if not them, others would have found in the bible all the things that so many different people find there. It is really nothing new, from the day Jesus ascended to heaven, heresy (insert your definition of heresy here ;O>) has been with us. Compromise is almost impossible. But one day we will all be one. Won't that be heaven? Literally???? ;O>
Now back to our regularly scheduled food fight!!! Charge!!!!! Viva il poppa!!!!! ;O>
Rome lived to regret the day they did not work with Luther..Luther opened the door..and lots of folks walked out.
Lots of folks here rail at Sola scriptura..they mock and laugh..
But we KNOW that is the inspired word of God and we know that men can error .
You have heard the story that the way the feds are trained to find counterfeit money is to have them learn what the real article looks like.
In a similar way, by holding all the teachings of man to the geniune we can tell if a teaching is true or not
God gave us His word so we would know Him and so we would have a measuring rod to hold up all future revelation too. Without it we would be easily deceived (look at the cults that deny it's truth questioning the accuracy of the translation). That is the only way they can justify their beliefs...cause the word calls them liars.
I will sometimes ask my husband why he believes such and such..he has no answer (he was rasied at a time that bibles were not read at all by RC's ...he still never reads it) He has no answer!
Now Theresa that is wht the JW's love to come to the home of RC's..so many (not all) have never read the Bible through..they have no sense of the themes or "power points" of the word....so the cult moves in and fills in the gaps with altered scripture. Those that do not read it do not know the real from the fake..so they buy the fake
Everyone that calls the name of Christ should know for themselves what the word of God says..not second hand or third hand..THEN they are able to give a reason for the hope they have. Good old sola scriptura Peter knew that :>)
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
So I wander around asking Christians to read the Bible through....find a plan and read it.....let it live in your heart....have a reason for the hope you have. Hide it in your hert so when an error is taught you "hear it" right away.
God gave us His word to protect us..from error.....it makes us run (not walk ) from false teachings Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; . The gospel is what lets us walk with spiritual confidence..
So I do go on Theresa..we have differences in doctrinal positions..I happen to think the word of God does not support much of the tradition of the church . That was what Luther saw happening and he wanted to correct it. But I think we are still "family"
Sola Scriptura simply means that if what is taught is contrary to scripture and is contrary to the principles taught and contrary to the character of God as revealed in it..it is not truth..