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To: CCWoody; xzins; winstonchurchill; Revelation 911
No, man believes for his salvation, just as the Lord commanded him to do (1Jn.3:23, Jn.3:16) Grace and faith are not antithetical but complementary. If you are going to prove your 'thesis' that is what you would have to prove. That if man uses his faith, it is not grace.

Therefore, according to your contention, BY THE VIRTUE OF a MAN's OWN FAITH a "possible salvation" becomes an actual salvation. Man is not saved by grace, but BY THE VIRTUE OF HIS OWN FAITH. Do you agree then that your belief is that faith is the cause of salvation and not grace?

See what I mean about talking with you Woody, you are a real nut. Now, I told you have to prove that 'faith' is not part of grace. You come back with man is not saved by grace, by the virture of his own faith .

Man is saved by grace, through faith.

Since Faith is not a work, it is totally consistent with the grace process. It is the mere acceptance of the free gift (which is the grace) that God has provided.

Now, Woody, take your silly logical contructs somewhere else. It is clear that you have no intention of honestly dealing with what we have to say.

37 posted on 06/28/2002 2:46:35 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration; Jean Chauvin

It must be stated up front that a "possible salvation" is most definitely NOT an actual salvation; the certainty of the salvation of not one human being is provided for. Before a "possible salvation" can become an actual salvation something must be done. You must contend then that man must generate faith for a mere "possible salvation" to become an actual salvation.

Therefore, BY THE VIRTUE OF HIS OWN FAITH a "possible salvation" becomes an actual salvation. In order for the Arminian's construct to be proved there then must be some inequality in the mix that will determine the final outcome of either salvation or damnation. If grace is the inequality, then the Calvinist position is correct and Arminianism is overthrown by the concession. If it is in the VIRTUE OF HIS OWN FAITH then salvation is not by grace.

Of course, the Arminian will protest and say that it is the grace of God which enables the man to have faith. But the difficulty for the Arminian is not resolved for either it is the grace of God which gives the man the faith to believe and nothing more is required--the Calvinist position is maintained--or the grace of God only "enables" the man who must then generate his own faith and salvation is then not by grace, but by the VIRTUE OF HIS OWN FAITH.


Is the inequality:

    1. the GRACE of God?

    2. the VIRTUE of MAN?


39 posted on 06/28/2002 2:51:42 PM PDT by CCWoody
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