Posted on 06/28/2002 4:30:00 AM PDT by xzins
I'm sure you are aware that there has been a debate going on for centuries, often referred to as the Calvinistic/Armenian debate, with Scriptures to back up both sides of the argument.
Anyway, in light of your belief, following is a message I have received from Dr. James Dobson/Focus on the Family. Please advise if this viewpoint is the same viewpoint you hold to.
You asked about Dr. Dobson's beliefs regarding eternal security. He holds to the classic Armenian view -- that is, he believes God never violates the free will of the individual. Dr. Dobson feels that God does not force people to accept Him, nor will He lock them into an earlier commitment if they subsequently choose deliberately and willfully to disobey His known will.
But while Dr. Dobson does not affirm the doctrine of eternal security, he is at the same time confident that our loving God will not banish us from fellowship with Him for our mistakes, human frailties, faults, and failings. God's forgiveness for sin is one of the foundation stones of the gospel message. Still, this does not change Dr. Dobson's conviction that the choice is ultimately ours. He believes it is possible for an individual to remove himself from the grace of God, and exit by the door through which he originally entered -- the will.
This means that, in Dr. Dobson's view, it is possible for a born-again Christian to shake his fist in God's face and say in essence, "I will have my own way!" When that occurs, "There remaineth no more sacrifice for sin." This scripture, which is quoted below in its larger context, is one of at least fifty references that may be cited in support of the theological perspective to which Dr. Dobson ascribes:
*For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, the Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.* Heb. 10:26-31 KJV
Dr. Dobson realizes many good Christians have drawn different conclusions regarding this issue. He feels it is an honest difference in understanding on the part of equally committed people who are seeking the truth through imperfect eyes. "We see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (I Cor. 13:12)
We would emphasize the following points. The Bible teaches very clearly that it is possible to fall from faith (1 Corinthians 10:12). It also assures us that God will protect us from falling (1 Corinthians 10:13). The first passage warns us when we are complacent. The second comforts us when we are troubled. Among the other passages that deal with this are Matthew 13:18-23, Hebrews 10:26, and John 10:27-29.
We would, therefore, agree with the basic points which Dr. Dobson makes about the possibility of falling from faith but not with some of the other aspects of his answer. The Armenian view held by Dobson affirms that our free will cooperates in our conversion to Christ. We believe that our natural will resists God, and our will only cooperates with the Holy Spirit after conversion. We do not by nature have a free will to make a decision for Christ. We do not by nature have the freedom to choose for Christ. We do have the freedom to chose against him. From our perspective then, Dobson's answer is half right.
No more than he'll have to say to the whole of Protestantism for not taking a stronger stand against this charlatan.
This is the problem with so many (mini) magesteriums.No accountablity.
Hmmm....this has never happened before.I don't know what to do next,I'm lost.
LOL LOL I did not mean to throw you for a loop :>)))
Would you like to fight about something to bring things back to "normal" :>))
Nah,allow me to "bask in this moment" a while longer.
Let's go fight with the Mormons instead. ;)
LOL shhhhhhhhhhh codie not so loud:>)
Codie has an Irish wisper
However his spiritual leadership will be judged someday
And all this time I was confusing him for a Baptist!
Someone's forgetting the causa concurrens!
If it is true that every believer in free will is an arminian, then it is also true that every believer in determinism and fatalism is a calvinist.
Do you wish to play that game?
Rn, he will be far ahead of either of us in the rewards line.
Who does it better from a Christian perspective?
I generally like Dobson and support his conservative work.
It just seems interesting that Focus on the Family occupies space formerly owned by major theosophists and occultists.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. 8~)
* Jim Bakker - once popular PTL televangelist (defrocked by AoG after sex/financial scandal) * Tammy Faye Bakker - former wife of Jim Bakker and PTL co-leader; featured in film The Eyes of Tammy Faye * Jimmy Swaggart - televangelist; instrumental in exposing Jim Bakker scandal; soon thereafter scandalized himself after being repeatedly caught with prostitutes * Richard Dortch - assistant to Bakker at PTL; successor as PTL head for five weeks until he was forced to resign * Benny Hinn - televangelist
he belongs to YOU guys ..He is a free will preacher..
46) Jerry Falwell Endorses Benny Hinn At Liberty University report by Jackie Alnor, 2000 "On the “This is Your Day” program with Benny Hinn on December 28, 1999, Benny, in studio with his guests Steve Brock and a man named Ron (last name not given), featured clips from his 25th ministry anniversary celebration, highlighting several Christian leaders who came to pay tribute to him. Benny’s regular admirers appeared singing Benny’s praises, such as Rex Humbard, Paul Crouch and Oral Roberts. But one surprise guest was Moral Majority founder, Jerry Falwell, clad in his finest tuxedo, who gave his own personal endorsement of Benny Hinn."
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