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To: Grig
Symbols are context sensitive. If you look in Rev 12:9 you see "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,...", so you can't go about saying that every instance of a serpent is a symbol for Christ. Likewise in Isa 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! " and Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven".

How then do you justify calling Satan by the name of Lucifer? There is no context to prove that but there is context to prove Lucifer was the personification of the king of Babylon. In the case of the serpent, as Moses lifted up the brazen serpent on a pole so would the Son of man be lifted up. What is the connection in your mind?

13 posted on 05/28/2002 9:24:13 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: vmatt
How then do you justify calling Satan by the name of Lucifer?

Because we do not belive God has stopped talking to man. We belive our founder Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Through him God revealed the following (D&C 76:25-28):
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—

In other words, Lucifer rebelled, was cast out, and became Satan. This is not an uncommon belief, pick up a dictionary and look up Lucifer, on dictionary.com you get:
Lu·ci·fer Pronunciation Key (ls-fr) n.
1.The archangel cast from heaven for leading the revolt of the angels; Satan.
2.The planet Venus in its appearance as the morning star.
3.lucifer A friction match.

There is no context to prove that but there is context to prove Lucifer was the personification of the king of Babylon.

Lucifer is only mentioned by name in the Bible in that one chapter of Issiah. You can look at it different ways and derive different meanings if you want. How do you know that Babylon is not being used as a symbol of Satan's earthly kindom, or that when he starts talking about Babylon it's a change of topic and was not ment to imply the connection you make?

In the case of the serpent, as Moses lifted up the brazen serpent on a pole so would the Son of man be lifted up. What is the connection in your mind?

In that context, the brazen serpent was symbolic of Christ, but you can't take that and then claim every instace of a serpant is a representation of Christ, and I pointed out in Rev. where Satan, not Christ, is reffered to as a serpent.

If Christ wanted Eve to take the fruit, then how can a just God punish them for doing what Christ wants them to? God punished the serpant for what was done in the garden, do you think God punished Christ?

17 posted on 05/28/2002 10:08:00 AM PDT by Grig
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