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To: lockeliberty
What is the difference between traditional Methodists and the Holiness movement and isn't Wesley the author of sinless perfection?

Well, traditional Methodists differ from the Holiness movement in one primary way, with several others being direct corollaries of this main point: Methodists believe that the baptism in the Spirit occurs at salvation and is the means by which we are born again; Holiness folk believe that the baptism in the Spirit is something that happens later, and is synonymous with entire sanctification.

As to Wesley being the author of sinless perfection, no. If you want to define sin as strictly as the Westminster Catechism does ("Sin is the want of conformity to God's laws"), we have NEVER believed that anyone could be sinless. If you define sin as more a matter of motivation, then in that definition, it would be possible to be "sinless." The way I've seen it referred to best is this: we believe in a perfection that treads a line between "sinful" and "sinless" perfection, while being neither--it is instead, perfection in love. Purity of heart rather than clarity of head or absolute perfection of life.

6 posted on 05/26/2002 11:06:44 AM PDT by The Grammarian
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To: The Grammarian;lockeliberty;rnmomof7
Both pentecostalism and the Wesleyan holiness people share the common heritage of a second work of grace linked with the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" they differed on the evidence of this second work. Pentecostalism pointed to tongues as the evidence, holiness folk pointed to entire sanctification as the evidence. As in, "Be of sin the double cure, save from wrath and make me pure." Some pentecostal-holiness folk pointed to both as evidence.

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Modern charismatics embrace the importance of the experience of tongues without an insistance upon the historic pentecostal doctrinal foundations. Thus charismatics iinclude people from diverse doctrinal backgrounds whereas pentecostals emphasize separation from doctrinal error.

9 posted on 05/26/2002 12:05:13 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: The Grammarian;lockeliberty;drstevej
A Calvinist look at Sinless perfection
12 posted on 05/26/2002 12:29:16 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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